Re: Should we require labels to be always visible?

> So perhaps 3.3.2 needs an extension/clarification that it needs to apply
to all states of an input (i.e. authors need to ensure / auditors need to
test that the inputs have some form of exposed visible label both when
they're empty and not focused, empty and focused, when data has been
entered and the input is focused, and when data has been entered and the
input is not focused).

+1

JF

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 06/01/2017 17:27, Jonathan Avila wrote:
>
> We’ve had this discussion many times on the list.  I believe the current
>> SC 3.3.2 requires visible labels for all input based on the normative
>> definition and note of label in WCAG 2.0.
>>
>
> It's been my interpretation as well that 3.3.2 refers to *visible* labels
> (as only providing programmatic things such as aria-label will result in
> certain user groups not having that label exposed).
>
> Placeholder text used as a visible label for an empty input field may
> nominally pass this requirement in my view (assuming all other things are
> ok, such as color contrast), but once an entry has been made, that input
> would in my mind fail this requirement. So perhaps 3.3.2 needs an
> extension/clarification that it needs to apply to all states of an input
> (i.e. authors need to ensure / auditors need to test that the inputs have
> some form of exposed visible label both when they're empty and not focused,
> empty and focused, when data has been entered and the input is focused, and
> when data has been entered and the input is not focused). In short, an
> amendment of 3.3.2 (or a new SC, depending on how the whole "we can't
> change existing SCs, only add new ones" discussion is going to be
> finalised).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> P
>
> A visible label doesn’t have to be text and could be an icon, button or
>> graphic such as  a “search” button that is in close proximity to the
>> input field.  A placeholder would serve as the visual label when the
>> field does not have text in it.  As soon as the field has text in it
>> then another visual label would be needed.  I support the float label
>> technique described here:
>>
>> http://bradfrost.com/blog/post/float-label-pattern/
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Avila
>>
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>
>> SSB BART Group
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>>
>> *From:*Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 11:51 AM
>> *To:* Shawn Lauriat; David MacDonald
>> *Cc:* josh@interaccess.ie; lisa.seeman; Detlev Fischer; WCAG
>> *Subject:* Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?
>>
>>
>>
>> One of the other classic cases:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.google.com – it has title=“search” and aria-label=“search”,
>> does it need a visible label?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>
>> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
>>
>> Adobe
>>
>>
>>
>> akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
>>
>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com <mailto:lauriat@google.com>>
>> *Date: *Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:45
>> *To: *David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca <mailto:
>> david100@sympatico.ca>>
>> *Cc: *"josh@interaccess.ie <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>"
>> <josh@interaccess.ie <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>>,
>> "lisa.seeman@zoho.com <mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>"
>> <lisa.seeman@zoho.com <mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>, Detlev Fischer
>> <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de <mailto:detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>>, WCAG
>> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>> *Subject: *Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?
>> *Resent-From: *WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>> *Resent-Date: *Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:46
>>
>>
>>
>> As my two cents, I would say always required, and beyond helping around
>> cognitive and low-vision, to situational impairments:
>>
>>   * If the browser helpfully fills in all fields, with duplicate entries
>>     in four of them, you have no way of knowing what data really belongs
>>     in which field.
>>   * If you start to fill out a form and then the phone rings, diverting
>>     your attention for an extended period, you won't remember the
>>     fields. Even if you just have focus in the field, the placeholder
>>     falls off.
>>
>> Beyond that, using placeholder as a label goes against HTML spec
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html5-20110525/common-input-
>> element-attributes.html#the-placeholder-attribute>.
>> I know everyone does it these days, so I always say that the label
>> should move from inside/over the input to above or next to it, so it
>> remains visible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Limited space comes down to a design challenge, not a reason to forgo a
>> visible label.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Shawn
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:26 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca
>> <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> I would say it's already a best practice...
>>
>>
>>
>> Lisa, are those with cognitive disabilities likely to loose track of
>> what the field label is, if it disappears after they click on it? Is
>> that a common complaint out in the wild about placeholder text for labels?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:15 AM, josh@interaccess.ie
>> <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie> <josh@interaccess.ie
>> <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>> wrote:
>>
>> <chair hat off>
>>
>>  >Would it help the cognitive community if the label is always visible.
>>
>> I like the demo David :-)
>>
>> I couldn't see my clients wearing having to do that. On mobile, there
>> are times when screen real estate is so sparse that at best you get an
>> icon and placeholder text.
>>
>> I just  don't think that would fly as a MUST, as best practice maybe. As
>> long as it fits into the look and feel guidelines etc.
>>
>> My 2 cents
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Detlev Fischer" <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de
>> <mailto:detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>>
>> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; david100@sympatico.ca
>> <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>
>> Sent: 06/01/2017 16:03:31
>> Subject: Re: Should we require labels to be always visible?
>>
>> That's one way of doing it, but there will be others. So the requirement
>> might be EITHER have external visible label OR if using placeholder,
>> show label next to field after focussing field.
>> Note that some implementations keep the placeholder text visible even
>> after focussing (mostly grey text) until you start typing, which I
>> personally find confusing. Not sure whether some SC (COGA?) or technique
>> addresses this yet.
>>
>> David MacDonald schrieb am 06.01.2017 16:51:
>>
>>
>>  Most of the sites I evaluate these days seem to have placeholder text
>> for labels. An aria-label helps, but the label still disappears on focus
>> or on clicking into the field.
>>
>>
>>  Would it help the cognitive community if the label is always visible.
>> So for placeholder labels, should we require that the label appears near
>> the field when the user clicks or tabs to the field? Like this?
>>
>>
>>  http://davidmacd.com/widgets/floating-label/floating-placeholder1.html
>> <http://davidmacd.com/widgets/floating-label/floating-placeholder1.html>
>>
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>  David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>>  CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> Patrick H. Lauke
>
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Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
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