Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?

Love the Averitt example!

My feeling is if the label or instruction is clear enough (visible, marked
as required, etc) to allow the user to populate the field in the first
place, it would seem sufficient.

Complex tax form example, a user could seemingly clear their own input from
a field pretty easily, in order to allow the placeholder / instruction to
show again, if they found themselves questioning the field or input later.
                                                                                       
                    Erich Manser                                                       
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You don't need eyesight to have vision.



From:	Glenda Sims <glenda.sims@deque.com>
To:	David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Cc:	"josh@interaccess.ie" <josh@interaccess.ie>, "lisa.seeman"
            <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, Detlev Fischer
            <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Date:	01/06/2017 11:57 AM
Subject:	Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?



Have y'all seen CB Averitt's examples of placeholders that morph into small
labels (after you've started typing in the field)?   CB's examples are
posted here http://a11yideas.com/testcode/test.html

Also, I've been calling a WCAG failure based on 3.3.2 if there is no
visible label.  So, if a placeholder tries to serve as a label...but
disappears (as you would expect) when you enter content in that
field....and no visual label exists at that time....I think it really does
fail 3.3.2.


3.3.2 Labels or Instructions: Labels or instructions are provided when
content requires user input. (Level A)


Why?  Because, that field is still something that a user can input
into...and it is now missing it's label or instruction.


I'm open to the idea that I may have over-interpreted WCAG...but I'm
usually not guilty of that mindset.


Let me give you the situation that convinced me..that placeholders that
pretend to be labels, but vanish (and no visual label exists) after data is
enter are a failure in my book:


Imagine a complex tax form with text fields that only have placeholders as
labels.  I enter my data, but I make a mistake.  I have no one to see my
data (and the form label) at the same time.  This puts me in a situation
where I cannot see the label/instruction and confirm I entered the right
data.  Fail:  3.3.2 Labels or Instructions.


G



glenda sims    |   team a11y lead   |    deque.com    |    512.963.3773


web for everyone. web on everything. -  w3 goals

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 10:26 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
  I would say it's already a best practice...

  Lisa, are those with cognitive disabilities likely to loose track of what
  the field label is, if it disappears after they click on it? Is that a
  common complaint out in the wild about placeholder text for labels?

  Cheers,
  David MacDonald

  CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
  Tel:  613.235.4902
  LinkedIn
  twitter.com/davidmacd
  GitHub
  www.Can-Adapt.com

    Adapting the web to all users
              Including those with disabilities

  If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy

  On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:15 AM, josh@interaccess.ie <josh@interaccess.ie
  > wrote:
   <chair hat off>

    >Would it help the cognitive community if the label is always visible.

   I like the demo David :-)

   I couldn't see my clients wearing having to do that. On mobile, there
   are times when screen real estate is so sparse that at best you get an
   icon and placeholder text.

   I just  don't think that would fly as a MUST, as best practice maybe. As
   long as it fits into the look and feel guidelines etc.

   My 2 cents

   Josh



   ------ Original Message ------
   From: "Detlev Fischer" <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
   To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; david100@sympatico.ca
   Sent: 06/01/2017 16:03:31
   Subject: Re: Should we require labels to be always visible?

     That's one way of doing it, but there will be others. So the
     requirement might be EITHER have external visible label OR if using
     placeholder, show label next to field after focussing field.
     Note that some implementations keep the placeholder text visible even
     after focussing (mostly grey text) until you start typing, which I
     personally find confusing. Not sure whether some SC (COGA?) or
     technique addresses this yet.

     David MacDonald schrieb am 06.01.2017 16:51:


       Most of the sites I evaluate these days seem to have placeholder
      text for labels. An aria-label helps, but the label still disappears
      on focus or on clicking into the field.


       Would it help the cognitive community if the label is always
      visible. So for placeholder labels, should we require that the label
      appears near the field when the user clicks or tabs to the field?
      Like this?



      http://davidmacd.com/widgets/floating-label/floating-placeholder1.html
       <
      http://davidmacd.com/widgets/floating-label/floating-placeholder1.html
      >


       Cheers,
       David MacDonald



       CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

       Tel:  613.235.4902

       LinkedIn  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>


       twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>

       GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>

       www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>



         Adapting the web to all users

                   Including those with disabilities


       If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
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