W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > April to June 2017

Re: CFC: Change of Content SC

From: Sailesh Panchang <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 16:51:24 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJi9CqqKCs98NezoPdhGhAT9BUcOE76LgSJH6yU84egt+fwkwQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Cc: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
I have some strong concerns here and feel introducing this SC  might
make one wonder  how come WCAG 2.0 has left this out. The  situations
described in the intent[1] existed even when WCAG 2.0 was first
written up.
In Web 1.0 world, one would perhaps have used JS alerts or such to notify users
• "Your form was successfully submitted."
• "There are 5 results for your search"
• "There are 3 errors on this form" and so on
With JS alerts being out of style and AJAX   etc. being available now,
these messages are displayed in a manner that they are visually
distinct: as if it is an alert or tooltip, or updated status etc.

What this new content is missing is a corresponding role and is
covered by SC 4.1.2 even now.
Exception #1 to proposed SC  suggests the new content could be
associated with the trigger element.
This SC would be triggered even when an error message is placed next
to a failed field and is associated say via aria-describedby and focus
is placed on the field when the form is presented with errors...
because the error message is not associated with the submit button.
I am assuming this form has no global  message above the form like 3
errors present / form submission failed.
A global message needs role=alert or aria-live=assertive.
Change in count of cart or  remaining characters in a text area is
updated in an element that needs role=status with aria-live=polite.
Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang
[1] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2


On 5/30/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
> Gregg,
> The continual changes concern has been raised and discussed
> (https://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-ag-minutes.html#item04) and while we don’t
> believe that we have the perfect solution right now we feel like it is worth
> getting this SC into the Editor’s draft so we can get additional comments.
>
> Regarding your other question, this is not just in response to a user
> action. A news site might add articles on some interval and that is in
> response to time or external events, and in that situation the site would
> need to provide notification that the content was changed.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>
> From: Gregg Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu<mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>>
> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 14:31
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> Subject: Re: CFC: Change of Content SC
>
> Looks interesting.
>
> But before we reach consensus on this    -  a couple questions and
> suggestion (depending on answer to question)
> .
>
> ?? Do we have techniques for doing this?
>
> For example in a game or simulation - there will continual changes of
> content.   There is no exception for this  — so is there a technique that
> should be used in these situations  to indicate that there are continuously
> changing content?
>
> ?? Or is this ONLY supposed to apply to content that changes in response to
> a user action.
>
> That would make sense - but the current language does not say this
>
> current language
>
> Programmatic notification is provided for each change of content that
> indicates a user action was taken or that conveys information, unless one or
> more of the following is true
>
> Perhaps something like
>
>
> Programmatic notification is provided for each change of content that
> RESULTS FROM A USER ACTION AND THAT indicates a user action was taken or
> that conveys information, unless one or more of the following is true:
>
> ??  If you DON’T mean changes due to user action — then for dynamic content
> (constantly changing) content is a simple notice someplace that says that
> the page has continually changing content sufficient?  or would the page
> need to stream a constant flow of notifications through some mechanism that
> is supported by AT?
>
>
>
>
> Gregg
>
> Gregg C Vanderheiden
> greggvan@umd.edu<mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2017, at 1:12 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick
> <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
>
> Call For Consensus — ends Thursday June 1rd at 1:00pm Boston time.
>
> The Working Group has reviewed and approved a new Success Criterion for
> inclusion in the Editor’s Draft: Change of Content, at level AA, with the
> goal of obtaining additional input external to the working group.
>
> Survey results:
> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/SCreview_May_17/results#xq10<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2FSCreview_May_17%2Fresults%23xq10&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce6860c3219a64497531f08d4a78a21ae%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317659151993986&sdata=XDd3C%2FoLkxYh0Zp9GDHwBlOyWsfrqCT00eprA9BCzi4%3D&reserved=0>
> Call minutes:
> https://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-ag-minutes.html#item04<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F05%2F30-ag-minutes.html%23item04&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce6860c3219a64497531f08d4a78a21ae%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317659151993986&sdata=qvWrVqal3tmBNIJEGGPHj8UH2ECQxcZfZ0RMTmGh8%2F8%3D&reserved=0>
>
> The new SC can be reviewed here, in the context of the full draft:
> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/change-of-content_ISSUE-2/guidelines/#change-of-content<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fchange-of-content_ISSUE-2%2Fguidelines%2F%23change-of-content&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce6860c3219a64497531f08d4a78a21ae%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317659151993986&sdata=NEM9tqww%2Bi2UM0%2Bu6JOGqg2FkS3a0Dptj2DwdXnqDOE%3D&reserved=0>
>
> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not
> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not being
> able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before the CfC
> deadline.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
> Adobe
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce6860c3219a64497531f08d4a78a21ae%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317659151993986&sdata=XPxMsjofk%2FX1X0Lc1%2Bx2R%2BFEVbBoCv5yqcEWi1%2FeGm0%3D&reserved=0>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce6860c3219a64497531f08d4a78a21ae%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636317659151993986&sdata=XPxMsjofk%2FX1X0Lc1%2Bx2R%2BFEVbBoCv5yqcEWi1%2FeGm0%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 30 May 2017 20:51:59 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thursday, 24 March 2022 21:08:13 UTC