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Re: CFC: Target Size and Target Size (no exception) SC

From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 01:26:48 -0400
To: GLWAI Guidelines WG org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-Id: <4337516E-9BA1-4F9B-8A75-E429244B5798@umd.edu>
to make it clearer 

Here are my three issues / questions 


This appears to include links. 
If not - then why is it important to have these large and not links.  If they can’t operate the links why is it important to operate these
if it DOES include links then we are forcing authors to never have small links on the page - even at the very bottom.  Everything has to be big.    
(check my math but does this mean that all links on a page have to be in something like 33 point font?   That can’t be right — too late at night but that is what the online calculator says 44px would be)

Why does the author have to make these big for everyone — when users can easily (if the content meets other SC) just use the  CTRL+  (or equiv)  to make everything bigger so they can use it.    
why force everyone to have things large when it is so easy for the user who needs it to make theirs larger? 

Why does “customizable” exception exclude magnification.   Does this mean ZOOM is ok but Magnification is not?  
if ZOOM is OK   then maybe it should say  “ 
> 
> Customizable: A mechanism is available to change the size of the target independent of the level of page magnification but not independent of Zoom.


(if I am missing something let me know) 

(these seem to be show stoppers for me unless I am missing something (which is entirely possible) ) 


PS please address all three 

g 

Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu

>  
> LEVEL AA
> 
> The size of the target <https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size_ISSUE-60/guidelines/#dfn-target> is at least 44 by 44 CSS pixels <https://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/> for pointer inputs except when:
> 
> Customizable: A mechanism is available to change the size of the target independent of the level of page magnification.
> Equivalent: The target is available through an equivalent link or control on the same page that is at least 44 by 44 CSS pixels.
>  
> From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:59 PM
> To: Glenda Sims <mailto:glenda.sims@deque.com>
> Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>; w3c-waI-gl@w3. org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: CFC: Target Size and Target Size (no exception) SC
>  
> I still continue to have concerns about this.     40px is a non-defined size.   on ever device it is a different size — yet we are saying it MUST be this big or larger —  when  THIS   is some arbitrary size on different screens.  
>  
> Also — if this applies to text links - then it demands that the text be a certain size — when this is not necessary.  
>  
> If it does NOT apply to text — then why do these elements need to be large when text does not. 
>  
> Finally — why do controls need to be large for everyone when a person who needs them to be larger can zoom to make them larger — as large as they need them to be.   I do not see the need for an SC to do something that is solvable so easily by the few who need this — and can be solved better than 40 x40 px
>  
>  
> I don’t think this has been thought out well.   Or at least I have not seen the arguments that would convince me.    
>  
> If these issues have been covered and I missed them  (there is such a blizzard of emails from all the different working groups/task forces  that I may have missed it)  then please send to me off list and I will be sure to see it and re-consider. 
>  
>  
>  
> g 
>  
> Gregg C Vanderheiden
> greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
>  
>  
> 
>  
> On May 23, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Glenda Sims <glenda.sims@deque.com <mailto:glenda.sims@deque.com>> wrote:
>  
> +1
> 
> glenda sims    |   team a11y lead   |    deque.com <http://deque.com/>    |    512.963.3773      
> 
> web for everyone. web on everything. -  w3 goals
>  
> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
> Call For Consensus — ends Thursday May 25rd at 1:00pm Boston time.
>  
> The Working Group has reviewed and approved two new Success Criteria for inclusion in the Editor’s Draft: Target Size and Target Size (no exception), at AA and AAA respectively, with the goal of obtaining additional input external to the working group.
>  
> Survey results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/SCreview_May_17/#wbsq4/results <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/SCreview_May_17/#wbsq4/results> 
> Call minutes: https://www.w3.org/2017/05/23-ag-minutes.html#item04 <https://www.w3.org/2017/05/23-ag-minutes.html#item04> 
>  
> The new SC can be reviewed here, in the context of the full draft: 
> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size_ISSUE-60/guidelines/#target-size <https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size_ISSUE-60/guidelines/#target-size>
> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size_ISSUE-60/guidelines/#target-size-no-exception <https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size_ISSUE-60/guidelines/#target-size-all>
>  
> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before the CfC deadline.
>  
> Thanks,
> AWK
>  
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
> Adobe 
>  
> akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk <http://twitter.com/awkawk>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>  
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe 
>  
> akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk <http://twitter.com/awkawk>

Received on Wednesday, 24 May 2017 05:27:29 UTC

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