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RE: Question: placeholder label option

From: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 15:44:30 +0000
To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB27801B8391DCA93AE5CD4FF89BB70@DM5PR03MB2780.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Ø  For instance, if browsers implemented a way to keep it visible on focus if there is no other accName, (i.e. shift it above the field) I'd be hard pressed to say why it would fail.

Based on the definition of placeholder It doesn’t seem to be a good candidate for an accessible name.
The placeholder attribute represents a short hint (a word or short phrase) intended to aid the user with data entry when the control has no value. A hint could be a sample value or a brief description of the expected format.


Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group
jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
703.637.8957 (Office)

From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 10:22 AM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: WCAG
Subject: Re: Question: placeholder label option

Hi Jonathan

I agree that the placeholder attribute should not be relied upon for conformance because it disappears on focus, but could you explain why you feel it is not a good accessiblename? I understand that it is a "swing" man that can report either to the accname or accdescription depending on what cascades above it in the computation(s), but it seems to reliable do that, and seems well supported in that on modern browsers.

For instance, if browsers implemented a way to keep it visible on focus if there is no other accName, (i.e. shift it above the field) I'd be hard pressed to say why it would fail.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:

>  it appears to me that the Placeholder attribute reports accurately to the ACCESSIBLENAME in the API for all interactive elements.

Independent from Sailesh’s good question about select – I’d argue that the placeholder attribute is not a good accessible name candidate and should also be used as a fallback but should not be relied upon for conformance.

Jonathan


From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:29 PM
To: Sailesh Panchang
Cc: WCAG
Subject: Re: Question: placeholder label option

Independent of the <select> specific element, it appears to me that the Placeholder attribute reports accurately to the ACCESSIBLENAME in the API for all interactive elements. From that perspective it seems to be sufficient. Where it is not sufficient is that it disappears when the user enters the field, so the moment they enter the filed, there is no visible label which fails 3.3.2.

We may want to look at techniques where the placeholder floats visibly above the interactive element on focus.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Sailesh Panchang <spanchang02@yahoo.com<mailto:spanchang02@yahoo.com>> wrote:
From HTML5 specs:
"A  placeholder label option  does not represent an actual option, but instead represents a label for the  select control.
If a  select  element has a  required  attribute specified, does not have a  multiple  attribute specified, and has a  display size  of 1, then the  select element must have a placeholder label option.
 placeholder - User-visible label to be placed within the form control"

Question: Should a placeholder label option as defined  above qualify as an accessible name for a SELECT control?
It says it is a "label for a select control".
Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang


Received on Wednesday, 23 November 2016 15:45:05 UTC

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