- From: Michael Pluke <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:43:53 +0000
- To: "josh@interaccess.ie" <josh@interaccess.ie>, Sarah Horton <shorton@paciellogroup.com>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
- CC: Srinivasu Chakravarthula <srinivasu.chakravarthula@deque.com>, "Paul J. Adam" <paul.adam@deque.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Josh - I like your thought experiment and the analogy of using a map in context to help me navigate from where I am. However, I'd extend this analogy to argue that if at the top of the mountain I want to plan my upcoming trip to Madrid, a local map is of little use. I think the purpose of a Site map is to help people understand all of the places you can go (a map of the whole region covered by the website), whereas the breadcrumbs are closer to a very localised map (or even a SatNav). So, on balance, I think it would be wrong to try to reuse the Site map term and apply it to breadcrumbs. This still leaves us with the probable reality that there is no commonly understood term that the general population could associate with the idea of breadcrumbs. Best regards, Mike Pluke Castle Consulting Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: josh@interaccess.ie [mailto:josh@interaccess.ie] Sent: 12 January 2016 10:38 To: Sarah Horton <shorton@paciellogroup.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> Cc: Srinivasu Chakravarthula <srinivasu.chakravarthula@deque.com>; Paul J. Adam <paul.adam@deque.com>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> Subject: Re[2]: Thoughts on pull request? >I did a usability study of a site that used the value “breadcrumb” to >label a nav element and screen reader users didn’t recognize it as an >interface element. [...] no one used it. Very interesting Sarah. We get lost in our own jargon. IMO, these things are 'mini maps'. You could even say they actually are 'Site maps' in the truest sense, as they give you your location in context. The convention is for a Site map to be in a dedicated link, writ large with 'Site Map' - I wonder how useful that is these days. As a thought experiment, if we image the term 'Site map' used for these regions, with some annotated label added to the 'active' page saying 'You are here' that would need no explanation at all. I'd like to see the term 'Site map' used here - should we reclaim it? It makes sense, as maps are things that are used within context. If I'm up a mountain I don't want to have to go home, to get the map to find out where I am. So why do we ask users to effectively do this online? So the question is, should we try to change this convention or create a new UI name? Interesting thread :-) Josh > > >The visible “You are here” is a great label, and I agree with Paul that >the best approach would be to use the visible label to provide a >programmatic label for the element. > >Best, >Sarah > >Sarah Horton >UX Strategy Lead >The Paciello Group >603 252-6052 mobile > >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick >><akirkpat@adobe.com> >>wrote: >> >> It looks like the label was added in response to the suggestion that >>there might be more than one navigation on a page and the label would >>help differentiate them for the user: >>https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0194.html >> >> I’m happy to remove it as I wouldn’t fail a page for not having the >>aria-label, and I’m happy keeping it as I also wouldn’t fail a page >>for using “breadcrumbs” or “location”. >> >> Thanks, >> AWK >> >> Andrew Kirkpatrick >> Group Product Manager, Accessibility Adobe >> >> akirkpat@adobe.com >> http://twitter.com/awkawk >> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility >> >> From: Srinivasu Chakravarthula <srinivasu.chakravarthula@deque.com> >> Date: Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:57 >> To: "paul.adam@deque.com" <paul.adam@deque.com> >> Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, WCAG >> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: Thoughts on pull request? >> >> Yes, if at all needed, using aria-labelledby would be a good idea. >> Thanks, >> Srini >> >> Best regards, >> >> Srinivasu Chakravarthula >> Sr. Accessibility Consultant, Deque >> Hand phone: +91 709 380 3855 >> >> Deque University | Follow me on Twitter | Connect on LinkedIn | >>About Me >> >> Technology is a gift to everyone; let's create inclusive digital >>experience >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Paul J. Adam <paul.adam@deque.com> >>wrote: >>> How about “Current Page” ? :) >>> >>> I do agree there’s no need for an aria-label or a better idea would >>>be to use aria-labelledby and point to the ID of the “you are here” >>>string. >>> >>> Paul J. Adam >>> Accessibility Evangelist >>> www.deque.com >>> >>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 9:39 AM, Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>>><srinivasu.chakravarthula@deque.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Andrew et al, >>>> I am not sure if there is a real need for a label here when there >>>>is already info stating "You are here" which is more meaningful than >>>>"breadcrumb" or "location". >>>> >>>> I agree with Josh that location in general means to a geographical >>>>location and that's what users would assume specially there is a lot >>>>of location use in apps today. So even "Current location" as >>>>suggested by my friend Paul would also be confusing. Sorry Paul... >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Srini >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>>> Sr. Accessibility Consultant, Deque Hand phone: +91 709 380 3855 >>>> >>>> Deque University | Follow me on Twitter | Connect on LinkedIn | >>>>About Me >>>> >>>> Technology is a gift to everyone; let's create inclusive digital >>>>experience >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Paul J. Adam >>>><paul.adam@deque.com> >>>>wrote: >>>>> I would say something like “Current Location”. >>>>> >>>>> I don’t think that “Breadcrumbs” is a plain language term that >>>>>non-developer folks know what it means in terms of a web site. >>>>> >>>>> Paul J. Adam >>>>> Accessibility Evangelist >>>>> www.deque.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>>>><akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that this may we be editorial, but what do people think >>>>>>– is “location” better than “breadcrumbs” in this example? >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/142/files?diff=split >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> AWK >>>>>> >>>>>> Andrew Kirkpatrick >>>>>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility Adobe >>>>>> >>>>>> akirkpat@adobe.com >>>>>> http://twitter.com/awkawk >>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > >
Received on Tuesday, 12 January 2016 11:44:25 UTC