Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt

Right. I'm not sure anyone knew the status of accessibility support before
David tested. If there is no accessibility support, this will not be a
sufficient technique.


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:37 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>wrote:

> Hi Steve
>
>
>
> >Hi dave,
> >thanks for doing the testing.
>
> >Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6
>
> Given that it's not accessibility supported right now I think we need to
> wait before we provide a WCAG sufficient technique using figcaption. It
> appears that the assistive technology companies and the browsers have
> looked at figcaption and made a decision on it. For instance the figure is
> not read as such. It only reads the caption and ignores the figure so you
> don't even know that a figure is there. I kind of wish they hadn't done
> anything to it so we could hope that it would be implemented correctly
> soon. This could turn into a long-term accessibility support issue, we’ve
> seen this kind of thing before... A déjà vu by longdesc? I hope not.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
>
>
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> Je vous remercie de votre collaboration.
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* January 13, 2014 3:07 PM
> *To:* David MacDonald
> *Cc:* Gunderson, Jon R; Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor;
> w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; HTML Accessibility Task Force; kirsten@can-adapt.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt
>
>
>
> Hi dave,
> thanks for doing the testing.
>
> Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
>
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
>
> On 13 January 2014 19:47, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> A couple of corrections. Dragon NaturallySpeaking misspeaks
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Steve
>
>
>
> I've done some testing with a simple image.
>
> http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html
>
>
>
> It is a simple image inside the figure tag with placeholder text in the
> figcaption.
>
>
>
>    -Jaws with Internet Explorer and Firefox: : it read the text of the
> figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there
> was a graphic on the page. The Jaws key "G" to read the next graphic does
> not work because Jaws does not appear to recognize as a graphic.
>
>
>
>    -NVDA with Internet Explorer and Firefox: it read the text of the
> figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there
> was a graphic on the page. The key "G" to read the next graphic does not
> work because NVDA does not appear to recognize it as a graphic.
>
>
>
>    -Safari in Maverick: does not recognize the figure element and just
> says “group”, then an empty image and the text afterwards as if it was a
> paragraph as if there was no relationship between the legend and the
> graphic.
>
>
>
> -Aviewer and IE: screenshot below...   I guess it shows up as a group the
> image has not reported Accname. So API seems to only report the content of
> the figcaption when the figcaption as focus.
>
>
>
> Discussion: I'm really struggling to figure out where I stand on all of
> this because the ways things are being reported right now in a Windows
> environment does not really allow the screener user to even know that there
> is a figure there. It just reads a text of the figcaption without
> announcing that it's a figure. In Safari it does announce as a group. It's
> hard to tell when the group ends. It just simply has a graphic without an
> alternative and then the next time the person arrows down they get the
> figcaption which doesn't appear to be a programmatic association except for
> the word “group” before the item. VoiceOver screen reader users will have
> to get themselves acclimatized to this new type of group. But all in all
> I'm quite disappointed with the way it works. It almost seems like this
> belongs in that larger discussion about accessible names and alternative
> text. Right now it seems there's more success with some of the other
> nonstandard alternatives than with figcaption. Which makes it difficult to
> say this is okay and the others are not. I'm really committed to unity
> between HTML5 and WCAG, but reticent to create a technique that is
> sufficient using figcaption right now. And I'm wondering what others think.
>
>
>
> [image: SNAGHTML226329]
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
>
>
> This e-mail originates from CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Any distribution, use
> or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the
> intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by
> return e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank
> you.
>
>
>
> Le présent courriel a été expédié par CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Toute
> distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements
> qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est
> interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser
> par téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans
> délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies.
> Je vous remercie de votre collaboration.
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>]
>
> *Sent:* January 13, 2014 9:58 AM
> *To:* Gunderson, Jon R
> *Cc:* Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt
>
>
>
> Hi Jon, you have asked me this question before :-)
>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Feb/0093.html
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
>
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
>
> On 13 January 2014 14:54, Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> What are the proposed accessibility API mapping for FIGURE and FIGCAPTION
> elements?
>
>
>
> Is the FIGURE the same as an IMG element, where FIGCAPTION has the same
> role as the ALT attribute?
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2014 5:50 AM
> *To:* Alastair Campbell
> *Cc:* Joshue O Connor; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt
>
>
>
>
>
> On 13 January 2014 11:42, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> wrote:
>
> I seem to remember there was a big discussion about whether @alt should be
> required for HTML5, which is a similar issue. I'm not sure what the outcome
> was, has that been decided and written down somewhere?
>
>
>
> there is one case where an alt attribute is not required:
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#when-a-text-alternative-is-not-available-at-the-time-of-publication
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
>
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
>
>
>