RE: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt

Hi Steve

 

>Hi dave, 
>thanks for doing the testing.

>Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in
http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6



Given that it's not accessibility supported right now I think we need to
wait before we provide a WCAG sufficient technique using figcaption. It
appears that the assistive technology companies and the browsers have looked
at figcaption and made a decision on it. For instance the figure is not read
as such. It only reads the caption and ignores the figure so you don't even
know that a figure is there. I kind of wish they hadn't done anything to it
so we could hope that it would be implemented correctly soon. This could
turn into a long-term accessibility support issue, we’ve seen this kind of
thing before... A déjà vu by longdesc? I hope not. 

 

Cheers,

David MacDonald

 

CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

Tel:  613.235.4902

 <http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100

 <http://www.can-adapt.com/> www.Can-Adapt.com

   

  Adapting the web to all users

            Including those with disabilities

 

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From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com] 
Sent: January 13, 2014 3:07 PM
To: David MacDonald
Cc: Gunderson, Jon R; Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org;
HTML Accessibility Task Force; kirsten@can-adapt.com
Subject: Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt

 

Hi dave, 
thanks for doing the testing.

Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in
http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6






--

Regards

SteveF

HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> 

 

On 13 January 2014 19:47, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:

A couple of corrections. Dragon NaturallySpeaking misspeaks

 

 

Hi Steve

 

I've done some testing with a simple image.

 <http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html>
http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html

 

It is a simple image inside the figure tag with placeholder text in the
figcaption. 

 

   -Jaws with Internet Explorer and Firefox: : it read the text of the
figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there
was a graphic on the page. The Jaws key "G" to read the next graphic does
not work because Jaws does not appear to recognize as a graphic. 

 

   -NVDA with Internet Explorer and Firefox: it read the text of the
figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there
was a graphic on the page. The key "G" to read the next graphic does not
work because NVDA does not appear to recognize it as a graphic.

 

   -Safari in Maverick: does not recognize the figure element and just says
“group”, then an empty image and the text afterwards as if it was a
paragraph as if there was no relationship between the legend and the
graphic. 

 

-Aviewer and IE: screenshot below...   I guess it shows up as a group the
image has not reported Accname. So API seems to only report the content of
the figcaption when the figcaption as focus.

 

Discussion: I'm really struggling to figure out where I stand on all of this
because the ways things are being reported right now in a Windows
environment does not really allow the screener user to even know that there
is a figure there. It just reads a text of the figcaption without announcing
that it's a figure. In Safari it does announce as a group. It's hard to tell
when the group ends. It just simply has a graphic without an alternative and
then the next time the person arrows down they get the figcaption which
doesn't appear to be a programmatic association except for the word “group”
before the item. VoiceOver screen reader users will have to get themselves
acclimatized to this new type of group. But all in all I'm quite
disappointed with the way it works. It almost seems like this belongs in
that larger discussion about accessible names and alternative text. Right
now it seems there's more success with some of the other nonstandard
alternatives than with figcaption. Which makes it difficult to say this is
okay and the others are not. I'm really committed to unity between HTML5 and
WCAG, but reticent to create a technique that is sufficient using figcaption
right now. And I'm wondering what others think.

 

SNAGHTML226329

 

Cheers,

David MacDonald

 

CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

Tel:  613.235.4902

 <http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100

 <http://www.can-adapt.com/> www.Can-Adapt.com

   

  Adapting the web to all users

            Including those with disabilities

 

This e-mail originates from CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Any distribution, use or
copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the
intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by return
e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you.

 

Le présent courriel a été expédié par CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Toute
distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements
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interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par
téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans délai la
version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies. Je vous
remercie de votre collaboration.

 

From: Steve Faulkner [ <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com] 
Sent: January 13, 2014 9:58 AM
To: Gunderson, Jon R
Cc: Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor;  <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt

 

Hi Jon, you have asked me this question before :-)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Feb/0093.html




--

Regards

SteveF

HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> 

 

On 13 January 2014 14:54, Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote:

Steve,

 

What are the proposed accessibility API mapping for FIGURE and FIGCAPTION
elements?

 

Is the FIGURE the same as an IMG element, where FIGCAPTION has the same role
as the ALT attribute?

 

Jon

 

 

From: Steve Faulkner [mailto: <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
faulkner.steve@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 5:50 AM
To: Alastair Campbell
Cc: Joshue O Connor;  <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt

 

 

On 13 January 2014 11:42, Alastair Campbell < <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>
acampbell@nomensa.com> wrote:

I seem to remember there was a big discussion about whether @alt should be
required for HTML5, which is a similar issue. I'm not sure what the outcome
was, has that been decided and written down somewhere?

 

there is one case where an alt attribute is not required:

 
<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#when-a
-text-alternative-is-not-available-at-the-time-of-publication>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#when-a-
text-alternative-is-not-available-at-the-time-of-publication




--

Regards

SteveF

 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> HTML 5.1