- From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
- Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 00:46:30 -0600
- To: <jim@jimthatcher.com>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Yes The structures in a document. The heading structure The structure represented by nested list The structure in any table. Not the markup structure but the fact that the information is tabular. A document may have many structures in it in addition to the overall heading structure. Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr. Director - Trace R & D Center University of Wisconsin-Madison -----Original Message----- From: Jim Thatcher [mailto:jim@jimthatcher.com] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:19 PM To: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: RE: Navigational features Ah ha, you said: > It says the structure must be programmatically determined It does not. If it did then maybe we would be OK. It says structures (plural) must be programmatically determined. I believe telling you that all my headings are class="bh t1" satisfies "structures may be programmatically determined" but does not satisfy "structure may be programmatically determined" In everything you wrote you used the singular. The visible structures are all the table cells with class="bh t1". But visible structure is "heading" and I can't programmatically determine that. Does any of that make sense? Jim Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/ 512-306-0931 -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:47 PM To: jim@jimthatcher.com; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: RE: Navigational features Hmmm The INTENT is that '' if they look and are used as headings -- they are programmatically determinable to BE headings. So these would fail - as you would like. But you are saying that 1.3 is not clear on this - right? Hmmmm again. It says the structure must be programmatically determined. I don't see how you could say that the visible structure was. The table layout is not visible structure. If it LOOKS like headings -- that is the structure that must be programmatically determinable. Can you think of a nice way to word the problem as a "common failure" so we can put it in UNDERSTANDING (How to meet...)? Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr. Director - Trace R & D Center University of Wisconsin-Madison -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Jim Thatcher Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:31 PM To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: RE: Navigational features Hi, Thanks Gregg, and I agree. My concern is requiring content that looks like a heading to be marked up as a heading to facilitate in-page navigation. Example is a heading image on the left side of http://borders.com with the text "Browse" in white letters on a greenish-blue background. You pointed me to 1.3 (Perceivable structures within the content can be programmatically determined.) instead of 2.4.1 where I was looking. OK. When you go to my.yahoo.com, there are a number of pieces of content that look like headings, content that most would agree are headings. Apply 1.3: They all are in table cells (marked <td>) with class "hb t1". I think with that information you can programmatically determine those structures. The problem is this: The structures are programmatically determined; what kind of structure is NOT determined. (BTW, they are marked as H1's on my.yahoo.com.) I am trying to get at something like, "perceivable structures and their purpose (like list, heading, paragraph) can be programmatically determined." It is not enough to be able to detect the structures. And I don't like that wording either. And the converse says use markup correctly, so when we programmatically detect structure and purpose, it is accurate, e.g., an h3 really is a level three heading (not a list item as on my.yahoo.com). Jim Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/ 512-306-0931
Received on Sunday, 4 December 2005 06:46:37 UTC