- From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
- Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:17:32 -0500
- To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Thanks for the summary Joe This type of listing of issues is very useful. Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr. Director - Trace R & D Center University of Wisconsin-Madison > -----Original Message----- > From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org > [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Joe Clark > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 4:48 PM > To: WAI-GL > Subject: Summing up the debate about validity at Priority 1 or 2 > > > As I see it: > > 1. > We already have validity as a requirement in WCAG 1-- at Priority 2. > > <http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-identify-grammar> > > Current "drafts" of WCAG 2 list valid code at Levels 1 and 3 > (the latter of which will of course disappear). > > <http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#use-spec> > > Hence the null hypothesis is that it will stay there in WCAG > 2. The only plausible change from WCAG 1 is upping the level > to Priority 1. > > > 2. > If we don't require valid code at Priority 1, we really will be > saying that our guidelines (a W3C "Recommendation") are important but > that other W3C Recommendations are not. We really will be hypocrites. > > But we already are! We already have valid code at Priority 2. It's > already optional. > > > 3. > It's substantially less difficult now to produce real live Web sites > with valid code. However, it's not easy all the time, particularly: > > * with legacy content-management systems that are clearly broken in > the first place but are too expensive to fix; > > * on sites with content contributed by many users; > > * on sites that pull in data from disparate sources that they cannot > control (in one real case, that data arrives with tag-soup HTML > already); or > > * in the case of masses of legacy documents that simply could not be > cleaned up without unreasonable effort (in one real case, 20,000 > documents; in another case, it took two people two months to make 620 > pages valid) > > to give but a few examples. > > > 4. > Validity and well-formedness *aren't* the same thing and WCAG Working > Group really is trying to underhandedly redefine "well-formedness"-- > even as it rejects a certain other term ("semantics") that everyone > else in the industry understands. > > > 5. > Validity and well-formedness can both be undone by a single > character. It's all-or-nothing, hence precarious. My own pages have > become invalid for small reasons behind my back. On really big sites, > it's gonna happen even more often. > > > 6. > Valid code is an excellent predictor of accessible code. But nothing > in life is guaranteed. > > > 7. > Adaptive technology and browsers themselves, through permissive > interpretation of HTML, ensure that many or most cases of invalid > HTML are still accessible-- but that applies only to HTML that uses > basic accessibility features like alt texts. We all agree that tag > soup that simply ignores any recommendations for accessibility is a > problem for many people with disabilities. > > > 8. > Adaptive technologies, on the other hand, are often too stupid to > recognize and use standards-compliant methods (perennial example: > longdesc; other example: advanced table markup). Then again, so are > browsers (both examples apply). > > > 9. > Requiring valid code at all times makes sense as part of ATAG. But > that is proposed for ATAG 2, which doesn't exist yet. Nothing at all > complies with ATAG 1 and I rather doubt anything will comply with > ATAG 2, either. I'd like to be wrong, but let's not pin our hopes on > compliance with a nonexistent successor specification whose > predecessor nothing else complied with. > > > 10. > The Working Group totally screwed up its presentation of this issue. > It could have gotten most of us onside easily enough, but blew it. > Plus Matt's been real cranky for the first time in living memory. > > <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0807.html> > > -- > > Joe Clark | joeclark@joeclark.org > Accessibility <http://joeclark.org/access/> > Expect criticism if you top-post > >
Received on Wednesday, 22 June 2005 22:17:43 UTC