- From: Roberto Scano (IWA/HWG) <rscano@iwa-italy.org>
- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:43:09 +0200
- To: <mcmay@w3.org>, <joeclark@joeclark.org>
- Cc: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
if u declare a dtd and not respect it, it's a dtd violation: br is an example and if people said: "why it's wrong" means that they don't know what they are doing.
As Joe said, we are in application/xhtml+xml era, and for application/xml markup conformance is required for correct representation. Web (html) is the only language that authorize representation of non-conformed content (except of mosaic).
Moving to level 2 means make possibily inaccessible pages for all.
I hope we don't make the same error of wcag 1.0 where colour contrast for text was level 3 and for images level 2: a well conformed page that respect all level 1 and 2 checkpoint with all text and background of the same text colour (eg. Black) is formally wcag 1.0 AA but inaccessible to the largest audience (people without disability/AT)
----- Messaggio originale -----
Da: "Matt May"<mcmay@w3.org>
Yep. And it's the right call to leave it out at P1. If it's possible to
create accessible content without forcing a validation process at the
same time, that's a reasonable approach, if it gets more people to focus
on making what they have more accessible.
> Do you even understand what you're doing? If you maintain invalid
> markup as a permitted option, CMSs will never be upgraded to produce
> valid code. You've given them an escape clause.
Accessibility is not the primary driver for valid output. Most companies
are moving to standards-based output because their consumers are asking
for it to increase browser interoperability and lower maintenance costs
and development time. They can just as effectively make inaccessible
content from a tool that produces valid output, despite all claims to
the contrary.
> Who in the room in Brussels is capable of using a manual editor--
> complete with macros and presets-- to produce valid code in the first
> place? Do you even know how to do what you're saying is too hard to
> require? Probably not, right?
I'm not in Brussels, but I do know all that stuff, and I've evaluated
enough authoring tools in my official capacity to know that a lot of
them still don't have a grip on validity. And when considering older
systems that are still in use, which we have to do, many may well be
impossible to fix. They'd spend more time fixing validation errors (many
of which wouldn't matter at all to ATs) than they would actually
thinking about how to make their content more accessible.
Yes, sites should be valid without exception. I pounded my fist on the
podium at a W3C Advisory Committee meeting to drive that point home to
authoring tool vendors. But validity is not a sine qua non for
accessibility. And it's the wrong thing to lie down in the road over.
If validity is level 1, somebody is going to ask us why adding a slash
to the <br> elements in their XHTML document is going to make them
accessible, and we're going to have to come up with an answer to that.
Invalid code is highly correlated with inaccessible HTML, but to say all
invalid HTML is de facto inaccessible is a hasty generalization fallacy.
They're both symptoms of poor coding practices -- but we're concerned
with content, and lots of it. While I think it's important to have valid
code, I also believe the lowest level of WCAG 2 is the wrong place to
enforce it. Level 2 is more appropriate, and reflects the amount of work
involved in making many sites valid.
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Received on Wednesday, 15 June 2005 06:43:30 UTC