- From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:38:14 -0500
- To: "david poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>, "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, "Michael Cooper" <michaelc@watchfire.com>, "WAI GL (E-mail)" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Cc: <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org>
David Pullman wrote: <blockquote> You wrote: " is it not a barrier to use of the web if clear links are needed from a cognitive point of view?" <blockquote> Gregg replied: Not if the text around the link makes it clear what the link is about. The meaning of the link does not have to be in the link. The classic is For information on the last equation on the exam [click here]. Where [click here] is the link. This is not good form but it does not make the page unusable. </blockquote> John replies: If the only link text is "here" or "click here" the page is unusable for someone using a screen reader and possibly (as David notes) for people using low vision aids such as screen magnifiers who would see only the word "here" without the surrounding context. Think of the example you gave the other day about shrinking the window down to quarter-size and then looking at it through a straw. You used that example to illustrate how horizontal scrolling might be a barrier; the same problem occurs in the example you cite. See also Coyne and Nielsen (2001) on the difficulties of working with screen magnifiers. Lisa wrote: <blockquote> Case 2: Hard to use- a fast way to scan a site and read it in a non linerized way is tabbing though the links. It is also a way to build a page map or table of content of a site. That speeds up browsing a lot. However , as with so many criteria (if not all) sometimes is not relevant or helpful. For example, when "click hear" is inserted inside a sentence that gives it context case 1 falls away. If you have headings followed consistently by a short link "example" then that might be more useful the a long link For example <h1>provide text equivalents</h1><A ..>example</a> is, in my opinion, clear for both cases as you can tab through heading if you give them a tab order and this case is simpler to read then <h1>provide text equivalents</h1><A ..>example of providing text equivalents </a> </blockquote> John slys: Interesting point about eing able to tab through headings as well as links (if the headings are given a tabindex). But a page coded in this way might still be problematic if it included may links pointing to different URIs if all have the same link text. Someone using a screen reader's links list would get only multiple items called "example" with no way to determine what they referred to. True, one could then leave the links list and go to that particular point on the page, read the surrounding text, then arrow or tab to the link and follow it. But what a pain! Another option might be to use the title attribute on the anchor (<a href="someexamplehtm" title="Example of whatever we were just talking about">example</a>). This technique would be even more useful if screen readers could be set to read both screen text and title attributes for links (currently it's an either/or). Then you could do something like <a href="someexample.htm" title="of whatever we were just talking about">example</a>. John "Good design is accessible design." Dr. John M. Slatin, Director Accessibility Institute University of Texas at Austin FAC 248C 1 University Station G9600 Austin, TX 78712 ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu Web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of david poehlman Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 6:54 AM To: Gregg Vanderheiden; 'Michael Cooper'; 'WAI GL (E-mail)' Cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org Subject: Re: [#832] Clear link text - priority and acceptability of supplemental text Ok, Suppose I am using a low vision aid and need cognative assistance? I might not remember that bit of text that I saw a bit back. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu> To: "'david poehlman'" <poehlman1@comcast.net>; "'Michael Cooper'" <michaelc@watchfire.com>; "'WAI GL (E-mail)'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> Cc: <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 11:27 PM Subject: RE: [#832] Clear link text - priority and acceptability of supplemental text Hi David You wrote: " is it not a barrier to use of the web if clear links are needed from a cognitive point of view?" Gvan: Not if the text around the link makes it clear what the link is about. The meaning of the link does not have to be in the link. The classic is For information on the last equation on the exam [click here]. Where [click here] is the link. This is not good form but it does not make the page unusable. Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr. Director - Trace R & D Center University of Wisconsin-Madison -----Original Message----- From: david poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 7:36 PM To: Gregg Vanderheiden; 'Michael Cooper'; 'WAI GL (E-mail)' Cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org Subject: Re: [#832] Clear link text - priority and acceptability of supplemental text is it not a barrier to use of the web if clear links are needed from a cognative point of view? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu> To: "'Michael Cooper'" <michaelc@watchfire.com>; "'WAI GL (E-mail)'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> Cc: <w3c-wai-ua@w3.org> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: RE: [#832] Clear link text - priority and acceptability of supplement al text Clear link text means that the text that is visible on the page needs to be clear - yes? This would be a type V guidelines since it would specify how the page would look in its default presentation. Also - is this a crucial barrier to use of the web -- or just good design. Since I don't see this as a bar to use of the web - it would fall in level 2 or 3. Gregg -- ------------------------------ Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr. Director - Trace R & D Center University of Wisconsin-Madison -----Original Message----- From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cooper Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:35 PM To: WAI GL (E-mail) Cc: 'w3c-wai-ua@w3.org' Subject: [#832] Clear link text - priority and acceptability of supplement al text The requirement to make clear link text is currently a Level 3 success criterion [1]. In my opinion this should be a level 1. In discussion with the techniques task force, we thought it might be a level 3 because of the possibility to use supplemental text to clarify the link (e.g., the "title" attribute in HTML). But for that to work, we need to know that the supplemental text will be presented to the user when needed. But the UAAG [2] does not provide a single mandate for how this is to be accomplished, and further permits supplemental text to be presented instead of the orginal text, not just alongside. We are unsure of the implications of this for the clear link text requirement and the use of the "title" attribute to fulfill that requirement in HTML. I propose that the requirement for clear link text be moved to level 1. Specific mechanisms for achieving that should be left to technology-specific techniques, though it would be useful if the guidelines would comment on the role of features like the "title" attribute in HTML for meeting this requirement. This may require coordination with the User Agent group. [1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-20040602.html#consistent-behav ior- target-identified [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#tech-conditional-content --- Signature --- Michael Cooper Accessibility Product Manager, Watchfire 1 Hines Rd Suite 200, Kanata, ON K2K 3C7 Canada Tel: +1 (613) 599-3888 x4019 Fax: +1 (613) 599-4661 Email: michaelc@watchfire.com Web: http://www.watchfire.com/
Received on Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:38:19 UTC