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Re: Submit Event: RE: Automatic submission of forms and screen changes

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:56:57 -0400 (EDT)
To: Chris Brainerd <Chris.Brainerd@cds.hawaii.edu>
cc: Kerstin Goldsmith <kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com>, w3c-wai-gl <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0306290953280.8853-100000@tux.w3.org>

I think this is a bad approach - the submit input is specifically designed so
even simple systems know what to do with it.

This seems the interactive equivalent of using a font tag to specify a
heading, because a few browsers had a bad way of handling heading elements.

I agree that there is a general problem here, because usability for some is
compromising other people's ability to rely on their systems. It is a
software issue, and it is to some extent addressed in UAAG.

If JAWS really does this I think that is a grave mistake in their interface
programming (or in the discussions of it they have had with browser makers,
who admittedly they don't control).

my 2 cents worth


On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Chris Brainerd wrote:

>This raises an issue I have struggled with pertaining to the Form Submit
>button. Pardon me if this has been discussed previously.
>The default behavior of the Form Submit button is to fire the Submit
>Event when the ENTER key is pressed.
>This interferes with the JAWS screen reading program, in that this
>program requires use of the ENTER key to activate "forms mode", which
>allows JAWS users to complete Forms. The default behavior of the Submit
>button hinders JAWS users entering "forms mode." Often the Form is
>unintentionally submitted. Admittedly, this is a JAWS software issue.
>However, there have also been studies that show users who are unfamiliar
>with the Web and some with cognitive disabilities press the ENTER key
>after typing in a text box, again unintentionally submitting the Form.
>This could be considered an "unexpected action" and "change of context".
>My solution is to not use the Form input type "submit" but rather to use
>type "button" and add script to fire the Submit Event.
>Chris Brainerd
>Instructional Designer
>Real Choices ACCESS
>Center on Disability Studies
>University of Hawaii
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kerstin Goldsmith [mailto:kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:31 PM
>To: w3c-wai-gl
>Subject: Automatic submission of forms and screen changes
>Question: the NFB put together a list of guidelines for the web, and one
>of them seems quite pertinent;  I know that we have run into it in
>several ways, and it's definitely disorienting for a vision-impaired
>user.  I am wondering where similar language is found in the current
>WCAG 2.0 draft, if at all.  If it's not there, does anyone have any
>thoughts on the requirement?
>"Ensure that menus and other navigation controls can be operated without
>causing form submission or screen changes."  For us, there has to at
>least be some warning to the user, or there has to be some kind of user
>action required before form submission or screen change.
>I tried to find this under Guideline 2 somewhere, but maybe it's too
>late at night for that?  <smile>
>Thanks for any guidance/thoughts,

Charles McCathieNevile  http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  tel: +61 409 134 136
SWAD-E http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe         fax(france): +33 4 92 38 78 22
 Post:   21 Mitchell street, FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia    or
 W3C, 2004 Route des Lucioles, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France
Received on Sunday, 29 June 2003 09:57:04 UTC

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