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RE: Submit Event: RE: Automatic submission of forms and screen changes

From: Chris Brainerd <Chris.Brainerd@cds.hawaii.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:40:13 -1000
Message-ID: <4394F66E688EBD418EFD4431FC3AECBD04D5C4@lahaina.cds.hawaii.edu>
To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
Cc: "Kerstin Goldsmith" <kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com>, "w3c-wai-gl" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

What I don't understand why it is desirable to have the Submit event
fire when they ENTER key is pressed even if the SUBMIT button does not
have focus. The SUBMIT button could even be off the screen, yet pressing
the ENTER key causes an action to occur. Accidentally submitting a form
is an error that I have observed quite often, and not only with JAWS

Chris Brainerd
Instructional Designer
Real Choices ACCESS
Center on Disability Studies
University of Hawaii

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles McCathieNevile [mailto:charles@w3.org] 
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:57 AM
To: Chris Brainerd
Cc: Kerstin Goldsmith; w3c-wai-gl
Subject: Re: Submit Event: RE: Automatic submission of forms and screen

I think this is a bad approach - the submit input is specifically
designed so even simple systems know what to do with it.

This seems the interactive equivalent of using a font tag to specify a
heading, because a few browsers had a bad way of handling heading

I agree that there is a general problem here, because usability for some
is compromising other people's ability to rely on their systems. It is a
software issue, and it is to some extent addressed in UAAG.

If JAWS really does this I think that is a grave mistake in their
interface programming (or in the discussions of it they have had with
browser makers, who admittedly they don't control).

my 2 cents worth


On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Chris Brainerd wrote:

>This raises an issue I have struggled with pertaining to the Form 
>Submit button. Pardon me if this has been discussed previously.
>The default behavior of the Form Submit button is to fire the Submit 
>Event when the ENTER key is pressed.
>This interferes with the JAWS screen reading program, in that this 
>program requires use of the ENTER key to activate "forms mode", which 
>allows JAWS users to complete Forms. The default behavior of the Submit

>button hinders JAWS users entering "forms mode." Often the Form is 
>unintentionally submitted. Admittedly, this is a JAWS software issue.
>However, there have also been studies that show users who are 
>unfamiliar with the Web and some with cognitive disabilities press the 
>ENTER key after typing in a text box, again unintentionally submitting 
>the Form. This could be considered an "unexpected action" and "change 
>of context".
>My solution is to not use the Form input type "submit" but rather to 
>use type "button" and add script to fire the Submit Event.
>Chris Brainerd
>Instructional Designer
>Real Choices ACCESS
>Center on Disability Studies
>University of Hawaii
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kerstin Goldsmith [mailto:kerstin.goldsmith@oracle.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:31 PM
>To: w3c-wai-gl
>Subject: Automatic submission of forms and screen changes
>Question: the NFB put together a list of guidelines for the web, and 
>of them seems quite pertinent;  I know that we have run into it in 
>several ways, and it's definitely disorienting for a vision-impaired 
>user.  I am wondering where similar language is found in the current 
>WCAG 2.0 draft, if at all.  If it's not there, does anyone have any 
>thoughts on the requirement?
>"Ensure that menus and other navigation controls can be operated 
>causing form submission or screen changes."  For us, there has to at 
>least be some warning to the user, or there has to be some kind of user

>action required before form submission or screen change.
>I tried to find this under Guideline 2 somewhere, but maybe it's too 
>late at night for that?  <smile>
>Thanks for any guidance/thoughts,

Charles McCathieNevile  http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  tel: +61 409
134 136
SWAD-E http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe         fax(france): +33 4 92 38
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Received on Monday, 30 June 2003 23:40:26 UTC

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