- From: Marshall Jansen <marshall@hwg.org>
- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:00:46 -0500
- To: Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>, Wendy A Chisholm <wendy@w3.org>
- Cc: "'w3c-wai-gl@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@whatuwant.net>
At 02:53 PM 10/23/00 -0700, Kynn Bartlett wrote: >At 03:06 PM 10/23/2000 , Wendy A Chisholm wrote: >>Kynn, Cynthia, Marshall, and others who represent designers, do you think it will it be accepted by designers? It's using CSS which won't be supported on older browsers which causes me to anticipate designers balking at this. > >In short, no, but I don't think I could convince anyone, especially >Len, because the argument "designers won't accept it and won't do >it" doesn't seem to hold much weight 'round here. :) I agree. Len's solution (this is the mixture of graphics, text, and css to show a parts of the logo as a graphic, and the rest as css, right?) but anyway, Len's solution simply won't be acceptable to the majority of people. Think of the following: Coca-Cola and CNN both use 'text' as logos. CNN has their blocky text, and Coca-Cola has their signature font. Neither of these can be shown in CSS, and so these logos would at best be a pale shadow of the standard. Any other company that uses a stylized font, or certain text graphic effects simply cant pull off this hybrid scheme, so they won't accept it. >Any web designer who does this would get fired the minute that Marshall's >boss looked at the page in Netscape 3 and saw "it's broken", and would >get replaced by a web designer who understands the need for backwards >compatibility and thus uses a graphic to convey branding content. >(See Marshall's comments from a few weeks ago on this topic.) My 'old' boss, by the way. My new boss actually approves of CSS :) But Kynn's point is valid, and something I dealt with regularly. ANY variations of the page caused problems, even when those variations were caused by the different way Macs and PCs presented pages that I had little or no control over (pixel size, gamma levels, form items). Something as blatant as a different font? The site was BROKEN, and had to be fixed. This caused me to have to use several images that I would have preferred to use as CSS, because they HAD to be in the corporate font. I finally won a major battle just before I left the compnay (and I believe that I won it mostly because they only had me for 4 more weeks, so I got a lot of pull on how things would look), and actually put a fair amount of the text on the page in CSS. I did it because I knew I could control the VP/President's view of the pages while they were in 'test', by only showing them the pages in IE5, and that by the time the pages went live, I would be at a new job, and the VP of Marketing was ready to explain why Netscape didn't support the site's 'dynamic' features. Needless to say, very few web designers can get away with that regularly, and even then, I couldn't do everything I wanted to do. In the 'real world' of corporate web design, I think we need to focus less on the 50,000 foot view of perfect accessibility for all, and instead focus on accessibility practices that these companies can accept. If they can have their site look and work the way they want, and still be relatively accessible, I think we can make that sell. If they have to change their look and feel, their branding, what have you? They'll simply not do it. My company was relatively small, but still spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a print media campaign, and the web page was going to benefit from that expenditure, and carry that consistent look and feel, because they spent money on it. That said, this argument over A and AA compliance is relatively moot. If A compliance can be attained with the sie looking the way the company wants, then that's a possible goal. If a single facet of AA or AAA compliance changes the look and feel of the site, don't expect it to happen. I for one don't have a problem with that, but I feel that might be a minority opinion. Marshall
Received on Tuesday, 24 October 2000 09:12:05 UTC