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RE: EOWG: updated Use of WCAG 2.0 Techniques and Failures

From: Bim Egan <bim@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:05:07 +0100
To: "'Schantz, Paul A'" <paul.schantz@csun.edu>, "'Denis Boudreau'" <dboudreau@accessibiliteweb.com>
Cc: "'EOWG \(E-mail\)'" <w3c-wai-eo@w3.org>
Message-ID: <115D6C02F6424AF8BF16BCD3E53023FA@bimlaptop>
Hi Paul,

I've just tracked back to the original document at: 
The document has changed since I saw it first and there's now very little
text. However, it is still very difficult to reach or  read what is there
using JAWS v14.   Here's a breakdown of the experience: 

1. Following the link provided in an email:
a) The browser loads, the document title is announced, followed by "Google
b) JAWS announces an "activate"  link* followed by two mode change tones
(application mode is turned on and then off I think.  
c)  Using JAWS "read text command" produces nothing, the document appears to
have no text ... However
D) Toolbar links and buttons* can be reached and announced, as can any text
links within the document. 
That's all that JAWS can find, buttons and links, no plain text, no
headings, at all. 

* I'm currently visiting France and am horrified to find that the control
"activation" link, plus other links and buttons found in Google Docs have
been automatically translated into French.    If this type of feature is
deemed necessary, then there should be a way to give users control over the
language of the text in Google Docs toolbars and buttons. Geographic
location is no guarantee that the user speaks the local language, nor that
their screen reader has the local language pack installed. 

2.  Pressing the tab key takes the user around buttons and links within the
Google Docs ap, these are announced, but I have the following comments:  
A)  Date is not announced, instead the date formula is exposed to the screen
reader, (something like "Docs_timing[chv]=new date[ ..."
B) After the date formula, the next thing in tab order appears to be an
entire breadcrumb trail (Account options > Connections > ..."   There is
also at least another one of these before the main content is reached. 
C) Immediately prior to the first link in content there appear to be two
Toolbar buttons, labeled just "toolbar" and apparently having no function. 

3. When JAWS controls fail to read text, the user can usually fall back on
navigating via keyboard arrow keys to read text one line at a time. This
doesn't work in Google Docs, there is now audible output when arrow key
navigation is attempted, so apparently there is no interaction with the text
visible in the document. 

To summarize, JAWS v14 seems entirely unable to read text written in Google
Docs documents, unless they are links, in which case the linked text is
announced only when the link has focus. None of the features that screen
reader users have come  to rely upon for comprehension and navigation of
documents, such as the ability to navigate by headings appears to be
available, (I don't know if this is because the screen reader is unable to
take its usual "buffered" copy of the background document or not).
Automatically changing the language of the controls based on geographic
location will create difficulties for screen reader users visiting other

Hope this helps, and thanks Paul for taking the issue to someone who may be
able to find a solution or at least raise it as a bug,


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Schantz, Paul A [mailto:paul.schantz@csun.edu] 
      Sent: 23 April 2013 18:02
      To: Denis Boudreau
      Cc: Schantz, Paul A; EOWG (E-mail)
      Subject: Re: EOWG: updated Use of WCAG 2.0 Techniques and Failures
      Shawn sat next to me during Google's day-long 
      presentation at CSUN this year.good guy.
      The more detail you can send, the better their dev team 
      can address the issues.
      Paul Schantz
      Director, Web and Technology Services
      Division of Student Affairs
      California State University, Northridge
      phone: 818.677.3839
      e-mail: pschantz@csun.edu
      twitter: @paulschantz
      System notifications:  @CSUN_SAIT
      Input | Intellection | Responsibility | Connectedness | 
      On Apr 23, 2013, at 6:00 AM, Denis Boudreau wrote:
      	Good morning,
      	As most of you are aware, we ran into some issues with 
      a document from the WCAG WG that was handled in GoogleDoc 
      two weeks ago. After that meeting, I had said something 
      about it on Twitter and surely enough, it only took a few 
      minutes for somebody from Google to ask me about this 
      issue we've had. Turns out that person was Shawn Lauriat, 
      who works on GoogleDoc accessibility. I briefly brought 
      this into our conversation at the end of the meeting last Friday, 
      	If you did have a problem with the GoogleDoc back then 
      or if you're having problem with these kind of documents 
      on a regular basis, whether its due to screen reader 
      issues, low vision, keyboard access and whatnot, please 
      get back to me so I document these issues for them. I 
      know others have done this already but the more data we 
      provide him with, the more likely these issues will make 
      their way to bug resolution. 
      	Thanks for your cooperation and looking forward to 
      meeting you again this week.
      	On 2013-04-19, at 8:23 AM, Shawn Henry <shawn@w3.org> wrote:
      		The doc we tried to look at last week is 
      updated in a wiki page at 
Received on Wednesday, 24 April 2013 10:05:32 UTC

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