RE: Proposal for updated ATAG 2.0 Exit Criteria

Hi Alastair,

Thank you for the explanation.  I understand the proposal now.

But I have serious reservation with the proposal.  The previous proposal was to test 50% of the WCAG 2.0 level A SC.  Now the proposal is to test 2 SC for each level A, AA, and AAA.  I understand that the proposal streamlines the exit criteria very significantly.  However, it also means that the implementability of ATAG 2.0 is not put to test.  We can merely test two of the easiest SC at each level and call it done when in reality no authoring tool that can fulfill some of the more difficult WCAG 2.0 SC even at level A.  I think we need to find examples of implementation for all the WCAG 2.0 level A SC to even start to consider our proposal implementable.  I am potentially willing to consider more flexibility for level AA and AAA.  But we really should have a better story for at least level A.

Jeanne, you are right that WCAG 2.0 has already been tested for implementability.  But that was only for web pages not authoring tools.  If we are in a situation where we cannot find examples of authoring tools that can meet, for example, WCAG 2.1.1 (keyboard), which is a level A SC, then it is actually evidence that ATAG 2.0 is not implementable because we can't find web-based authoring tools that are keyboard accessible.

Not that I want to rain on the parade, but I worry what we are proposing does not stand up to scrutiny.  The blowback from issuing a W3C recommendation that is not implementable will be very embarrassing for W3C, not just this working group.  Please reconsider.

All best,
Alex

From: Alastair Campbell [mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2015 9:55 AM
To: Alex Li (LCA); Richards, Jan; w3c-wai-au@w3.org
Subject: Re: Proposal for updated ATAG 2.0 Exit Criteria

Hi Alex,

"For the thirteen ATAG 2.0 success criteria that are dependent on WCAG 2.0 [3] for their levels, each ATAG 2.0 success criterion must be implemented for two WCAG 2.0 success criteria at each level: A, AA, and AAA. These six WCAG 2.0 success criteria are a sampling of the requirements of WCAG (e.g. text alternatives for non-text content, keyboard accessibility, sufficient contrast)."

For the each of the WCAG referencing criteria, pick two WCAG SCs at A, AA, and AAA.

That makes 6 things to test for each of the 13 ATAG2 SCs (78), rather than 793 (13 * 61) for testing all of WCAG 13 times.

Does that help?

Kind regards,

-Alastair



From: "Alex Li (LCA)" <alli@microsoft.com<mailto:alli@microsoft.com>>
Date: Thursday, 16 April 2015 17:04
To: "Alex Li (LCA)" <alli@microsoft.com<mailto:alli@microsoft.com>>, Jan Richards <jrichards@ocadu.ca<mailto:jrichards@ocadu.ca>>, "w3c-wai-au@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-au@w3.org>" <w3c-wai-au@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-au@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Proposal for updated ATAG 2.0 Exit Criteria
Resent-From: <w3c-wai-au@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-au@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Thursday, 16 April 2015 17:05

Can somebody answer the question?

From: Alex Li (LCA) [mailto:alli@microsoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 7:41 AM
To: Richards, Jan; w3c-wai-au@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-au@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Proposal for updated ATAG 2.0 Exit Criteria

I have a clarifying question.  I think I understand everything until I read the following.

"These six WCAG 2.0 success criteria are a sampling of the requirements of WCAG (e.g. text alternatives for non-text content, keyboard accessibility, sufficient contrast)."

Can somebody explain to me what the sentence is for?

-----Original Message-----
From: Richards, Jan [mailto:jrichards@ocadu.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 7:08 AM
To: w3c-wai-au@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-au@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Proposal for updated ATAG 2.0 Exit Criteria

Just a reminder to all AUWG members:  Please help ATAG 2.0 to move through CR by sending a message signalling whether or not you agree with the Exit Criteria proposal below.

Thanks Tim and Alastair for responding already.

PROPOSAL:

Updated proposal to replace the current ATAG 2.0 Exit Criteria (http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/#exit).

Notes:
- The wording borrows from HTML5 (http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/public-permissive-exit-criteria.html)
- The section: "Success criteria referencing WCAG 2.0 for priorities" is taken from existing approved Exit Criteria.

----------------------
For this specification to be advanced to Proposed Recommendation, there must be at least two independent implementations of features that meet each success criterion. Each of these features may be implemented by a different set of products and there is no requirement that all features be implemented by a single product.

*Independent authoring tools*
are tools by different developers that do not share (or derive from) the same source code for the relevant feature(s). Sections of code that have no bearing on the implementation of this standard are exempt from this requirement. The authoring tools must be a shipping product or other publicly available version. Experimental implementations, specifically designed to pass the test suite and not intended for normal usage, are not permitted.

*Implemented*
refers to situations in which a success criterion is applicable to a given authoring tool and the authoring tool meets the success criterion. This is in contrast to situations in which a success criterion is not applicable.

*Success criteria referencing WCAG 2.0 for priorities* <THIS SECTION COPIED FROM EXISTING APPROVED EXIT CRITERIA> For the thirteen ATAG 2.0 success criteria that are dependent on WCAG 2.0 [3] for their levels, each ATAG 2.0 success criterion must be implemented for two WCAG 2.0 success criteria at each level: A, AA, and AAA. These six WCAG 2.0 success criteria are a sampling of the requirements of WCAG (e.g. text alternatives for non-text content, keyboard accessibility, sufficient contrast).
-----------------------

Cheers,
Jan


(MR) JAN RICHARDS
PROJECT MANAGER
INCLUSIVE DESIGN RESEARCH CENTRE (IDRC)
OCAD UNIVERSITY

T 416 977 6000 x3957
F 416 977 9844
E jrichards@ocadu.ca<mailto:jrichards@ocadu.ca>