- From: Len Bullard <cbullard@hiwaay.net>
- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 13:15:30 -0600
- To: "Christopher R. Maden" <crm@ebt.com>
- CC: w3c-sgml-wg@w3.org
Again: rule of ricebowl: owner of solution defends the problem. In this case, me, not Chris. >Christopher R. Maden wrote: > > I have a real problem with this level of behavioral specification. I > understand Len's desire for behavioral buckets, but I think there's a > better way to do that. [snip] > Asserting links and establishing relationships, yes. Specifying > behavior, no. I can fall on either side of this, but let me play devil's advocate because I've seen this done different ways in SGML systems. Stylesheets and behavior have nattered at us for a decade, so if we think we can solve this now, I guess phase III will be as noisy as Phase II. Ah so... First, the behavior attributes chosen for XML are confusing to me, so I'm just following the debate. I am probably influenced by the simpler notion of the MID that a behavior attribute is there to declare what to do with state and so, gosub/goto/spawn/other are sufficient. (I don't like "other": it is the black hole.) It is only useful if a link is specifying active traversal; not a passive relationship. It is necessary to understand that MID IS an application: a GUI scripting language over a database of anything, or in my words, a database sequencer. It's conceptual parent isn't HTML; it is Visual Basic and the Zinc and XVT portability toolkits. For what it was designed to do, it works because like HTML, the author has an easier time with scripts that correlate directly to screen objects. The trick was to make those as metaAsSensible, then get on with it. It is not a generic solution for the database information: it is reasonably generic for the navigation interface and declaring navigation of stateful relationships. Does XML need this, or is XML better seen as the language of the database an application like MID navigates? Should one consider rewriting MID-like apps as XML applications, or can they? There are other ways. There are sometimes better ways. Then there are THE ways this is expressed. Since no XML clients exist (publicly) but there are SGML browsers and HTML browsers that do use attributes to specify that a behavior is *expected* on a link: o name a bucket for it. make its use optional and warn that this attribute spawns subdomains XML doesn't constrain. o name the behaviors and be precise about what they do. o say that XML can be used to write languages with active objects if the behavior is added by a separate application architecture (eg. like MID uses a MID arch form and a HyTime ilink). Otherwise, what is to be done with action= tags that have already shown up in two SGML DTDs for web use? The Dynatext way is a way but to me, this is "The SGML Way" in a world in which too many users already do it other ways and some do it with SGML. If XML restricts that, it only narrows its own field of application. (Strange to be on this side of that argument, but...). There will be times when the stylesheet and the instance go down separate paths to separate destinations. 1. Should the user be restricted to fixed methods, or laissez faire, or is the behavior attribute just a flag for the middle way? IOW, here is what is expected, but not enforced. 2. Do I demand that a stylesheet is always archived with the XML instance? 3. What is easiest for the author (not a stylesheet designer) to use? I don't expect native DSSSL scripting to be a raging success. I expect point and click creation and modification will be. If DSSSL/Scheme is the export/import/ archival and under-the-scene processing language, great. Those are implementation issues, though, amenable to libraries. It could be C and production user shouldn't know the difference. It is the buyer of the system who needs to know if standardized stylesheet export and import is required. len
Received on Tuesday, 4 March 1997 14:26:40 UTC