- From: Graham Klyne <Graham.Klyne@MIMEsweeper.com>
- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:35:53 +0100
- To: Brian McBride <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
- Cc: RDF Core <w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org>
My perception is this: M&S is not clear, so neither choice is a *change* to M&S. Value based semantics: corresponds to the readings of M&S by those doing "information design" (e.g. CC/PP, DC, etc.) String based semantics: corresponds to the readings of M&S by those doing software implementations (e.g. cwm, Jena, etc.) Thus, whatever choice me make, it will break *someone's* code and/or data. I favour value-based semantics, because I think this more closely matches the intuitions that are invoked when populating the semantic web, which I think will, in the longer run, be the biggest task. But (given datatyped literals) I think either approach can work. #g -- At 12:48 PM 9/16/02 +0100, Brian McBride wrote: >I indicated last week my intention that the WG should decide on the >semantics of non-datatyped, i.e. old style, literals, at this weeks >telecon. I ask for the WG's support in keeping to that schedule. > >The decision we have to make is to choose whether literals of the form: > > <rdf:Description> > <foo:age>10</foo:age> > </rdf:Description> > >have tidy or untidy semantics, or indeed whether we are not saying one way >or the other. Note: I like the terms introduced by Patrick, "value based >semantics" and "string based semantics". > >This debate has raged for many months, with committed proponents of each >position arguing at length and failing to convince each other. After all >this, I think we have to conclude that we have failed to find a decisive >flaw or advantage in either approach. We have, in fact, to assume that we >have two self consistent positions and we must make a choice between them, >or choose not to decide. > >I think it is the role of the chair to assist the WG to reach a >decision. We have been stuck on this for ages. In the light of this, I >am going to introduce a bias in the way I frame the decision. > >I note that all of the implementations of RDF with which I am familiar >have implemented M&S with the assumption that literals have string >semantics, i.e. literal("foo").equals(literal("foo")). > >Our charter is to clarify M&S, not to go rewriting it. We have in the >past allowed ourselves some leeway in this regard, but we have set the bar >higher for justifying a "change" than for more straight forward clarifications. > >If we are going to ask implementations to change to remain conformant, I >suggest the WG has a duty to justify that decision. There must be a >strong and clear benefit from such a change and it must be one we can >clearly articulate to the developer community and expect them to support. > >The issue here is not whether the developer community is willing to >change. I expect the Jena team will implement what the WG decides as no >doubt will others. But if the WG are going to ask folks to spend time and >money making these changes, it ought to have a good reason for doing so. > >I am suggesting therefore that the default decision is that non-datatyped >literals have string based semantics (tidy) unless there is good reason to >change. I invite those who advocate value based semantics (untidy) to >advance a rationale for such a change and we will determine at Fridays >telecon whether this convinces the WG. > >I suggest that we have debated this issue to death and that further debate >is pointless. We are at the stage where we need to summarize the argument >and have the WG decide whether it finds it convincing. As chair, I could >try that summary myself, but I have decided that it would be best done by >the advocates themselves, though I'll try to help out if it looks like >that would be useful. > >Brian > >ps: summaries are short and clear ------------------- Graham Klyne <GK@NineByNine.org>
Received on Wednesday, 18 September 2002 06:13:53 UTC