- From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
- Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:00:48 -0700
- To: Sergey Melnik <melnik@db.stanford.edu>
- Cc: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
>I'd like to restate the questions, which Jan raised recently, more explicitly. > >Much of the ongoing discussion about tidy/untidy literals amounts to >arguing about different readings of a given piece of RDF/XML or >NTriples syntax. From what I can tell, both tidy and untidy literals >are implementable, so we have to pick one and wrap up. > >To my knowledge, untidy literals have been first suggested in the >context of long range datatyping (aka implicit/global idiom). >Specifically, untidy literals provide a shortcut for using a bNode >with a property (two triples are essentially merged into one). I think it is rather more fundamental than this. First, bear in mind that this entire issue only arises in the context of RDF graph syntax; all normal lexicalized notations, including XML, are inherently untidy. I think that databases are usually untidy as well (eg consider a RDB table where the second column is all integers and the third column is all strings: we could have ten in one and "10" in the other, and that would not be considered an implementation issue, right?) Second, the basic point is that people will, whether we like it or not, tend to use things like numerals as names of numbers. They are so used almost universally throughout human discourse and all programming languages. However, we are committed to RDF incorporating XML datatypes, which means that we cannot build this assumption into the language, since the meaning of a numeral string depends on the datatype applied to it (it *could* be a string. ) So there is a 'natural' default that we are prevented from assuming. Our options are to provide a different default (literals are strings unless stated otherwise) which will make some implementors happy but is unlikely to be found congenial by the rest of the world; or, to provide a mechanism which treats 'bare' literals as having a incomplete meaning and allows the datatyping information to be supplied from elsewhere (range datatyping or some external assumption). But the second requires that we allow one occurrence of a bare literal to be associated with a different datatype than another occurrence of the same literal. >Is this shortcut so fundamental that there is value of making it >part of the spec? I think so, cf. above. In other words, its not just a shortcut. But even if it were, we have Mike Dean and Patrick S. insisting that saving one triple per entry is critical for their applications (on palm pilots and cell phones respectively, I note :-) BTW, isn't range datatyping exactly like having a datatype associated with a table column in a database, rather than having to rewrite it in every separate entry? And isn't that normal DB practice? >Is there an appealing use case for untidy literals that is not long >range datatyping (aka implicit/global idiom)? > >Are we closing off any important extensibility paths if we go for >tidy literals? With regards to this last point, yes. DAML and OIL and probably OWL will need the flexibility of allowing (semantically) untidy literals, and if we forbid them then the DAML spec will need to be rewritten and OWL will probably no longer base itself on RDF (or, an alternative scenario, the Webont WG will split apart into two rival groups which will produce incompatible standards. It is perilously close to this already.) Pat -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola, FL 32501 (850)202 4440 fax phayes@ai.uwf.edu http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/~phayes
Received on Wednesday, 21 August 2002 05:04:51 UTC