- From: Patrick Stickler <patrick.stickler@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 10:19:38 +0300
- To: ext Brian McBride <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>, RDF Core <w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org>
On 2002-04-08 14:58, "ext Brian McBride" <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> wrote: > At 12:38 08/04/2002 +0300, Patrick Stickler wrote: > >> Jeremy's recent posts regarding entailments between the idioms >> suggests that there is an important question that seems to need >> answering, namely, do we wish/expect/need that a given datatype >> value (member of a datatype value space) always and only be >> denoted by a single node in the graph? (as opposed to it being >> denoted by a combination of nodes or statements such as the >> inline idiom with an rdfd:range assertion). > > That question doesn't seem to me to accurately capture the concern. The > answer is obviously no, since several bnodes in a graph may denote the same > value, but that does not get at the essence of Jeremy's issue. I am not talking about unique nodes. I am talking about a single node denoting the value, rather than a "constellation" of nodes or triples denoting the value. In the case of the inline idiom, no single node denotes the value. The denotation of the value is implicit in the combination of the literal node (lexical form) and rdfd:range assertion (datatype context). > Doesn't Jeremy's entailment capture the issue well enough? It does touch upon the question, but I don't think it explicitly asks the question directly, no. To rephrase Jeremy's entailment in terms of the above question: Is it unacceptable for a literal node without an rdfd:range assertion to not denote a value, but only a literal whereas the same literal node along with an rdfd:range assertion (but not by itself) can denote a value. I.e. given only Jane ex:age "25" . "25" alone does not denote the value twenty-five. But given ex:age rdfd:range xsd:integer . Jane ex:age "25" . then "25" and the rdfd:range assertion *together* denote the value twenty-five. Yet still, "25" alone does not denote the value twenty-five. There is no single node in the graph which denotes the value twenty-five. The value remains implicit in the datatype interpretation. Contrast this with the lexical form idiom. Given only Jane ex:age _:x . _:x rdfd:lex "25" . the node _:x does not denote the value twenty-five, it only denotes some presently unknown value that has a lexical representation of "25". As above, if we expand that to ex:age rdfd:range xsd:integer . Jane ex:age _:x . _:x rdfd:lex "25" . then, and only then, does _:x denote the value twenty-five, but we then have a single explicit node denoting the value, it does not remain implicit in the interpretation, even though the value is fixed by the datatype interpretation. The first case, with the inline idiom and literal node, may at first seem to be non-monotonic, as if in one case the literal node denotes a string but in the second case it denotes a value. But isn't non-monotonic because in both cases the literal node itself does not denote the value, but always the literal string. Knowledge does not change, it is simply expanded by additional information provided by the rdfd:range assertions. Insofar as Jeremy's actual entailment example is concerned: Does Jenny age "10" . Tommy age _:b . _:b integer "10" . entail Jenny age _:x . Tommy age _:x . I.e. do Jenny and Tommy have the same age? In the absence of an rdfd:range assertion, i.e. age rdfd:range integer . then Jeremy's entailment cannot hold because the inline idiom does not denote a value. Jenny's actual age is underspecified. In the presence of the rdfd:range assertion above, however, then I consider that Jeremy's entailment does hold insofar as the datatyping interpretation is concerned, i.e. both Jenny and Tommy have the same age, which is 'ten'. Whether this entailment is provided by some closure rule that can derive the datatype triple idiom from the inline idiom with rdfd:range assertion, e.g. { ?property rdfd:range ?datatype . ?resource ?property ?literal . } log:implies { ?resource ?property ?value . ?value ?datatype ?literal . } so that Jenny's age is denoted by a single explicit node in the graph, seems secondary to the real question of whether Jenny and Tommy have the same age, which in the presence of the rdfd:range assertion, they do. Now, getting back to the actual question at hand... If we need/desire that the value always have an explicit denotation by a single (not necessarily unique) node in the graph, then the present definition of the inline idiom is unacceptable and either 1) we eliminate the inline idiom This is basically to return to the original "convergence" proposal, using only the lexical form and datatype property idioms. I think this is the least acceptable of the two options, because users have clearly stated that they want the inline idiom, and it's our job to figure out how to make the MT work with it. 2) we adopt untidy literal nodes which denote values according to rdfd:range assertions. I.e. literal nodes become just like blank nodes in the lexical form idiom, denoting "some" value, only with literal (lexical form) labels rather than no label. They become in essence a contraction of the lexical form idiom with the same semantics as the lexical form idiom (and we can then eliminate the lexical form idiom as redundant). This would still not be non-monotonic, as the lexical form idiom is monotonic. -- However if we are OK with values sometimes not having any explicit single node denotation in the graph, then the present treatment is fine, and we do nothing (other than get the WD finished ;-) Thus the issue boils down to the particular question that I'm asking. Is it OK if values remain implicit in the interpretation or must they always be denoted by some specific node in the graph? Whatever we decide, the options seem fairly clear, but we need to decide. If the WG decides yes, then we proceed as we have been. If the WG decides no, then I strongly support option 2 above. Patrick -- Patrick Stickler Phone: +358 50 483 9453 Senior Research Scientist Fax: +358 7180 35409 Nokia Research Center Email: patrick.stickler@nokia.com
Received on Tuesday, 9 April 2002 03:17:03 UTC