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Re: websockets in the IETF, was: [whatwg] New URL Standard from Anne van Kesteren on 2012-09-24 (public-whatwg-archive@w3.org from September 2012)

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:12:17 +0000 (UTC)
To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>, Jan Algermissen <jan.algermissen@nordsc.com>, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>, "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>, URI <uri@w3.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1210232104200.2471@ps20323.dreamhostps.com>
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012, Julian Reschke wrote:
> On 2012-10-23 01:59, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > ...
> > Whether WebSockets is a good idea or not is besides the point. The point
> > is that the hybi group was not a pleasant experience for me. If I were to
> > be in a position to do Web Sockets again, I would decline the opportunity
> > to do it through the IETF. Doing it through the IETF made the work take a
> > year longer than it would have, made the protocol less secure (the WG
> > removed a number of defense-in-depth features), and made the spec a mess
> > ...
> And, as far as I can tell, fixed a security problem in the original 
> design (which caused some UA implementers to actually disable what they 
> were shipping at that time): 
> <http://w2spconf.com/2011/papers/websocket.pdf>

The security issue in question was already fixed in the draft by the time 
that paper came out.

> > (it's a mishmash of different editing styles). Plus, the group _still_ 
> > hasn't done multiplexing, which some of the vendors said was a prereq 
> > to implementation, something which, prior to the IETF getting 
> > involved, was only 3 to 6 months out on the roadmap. ...
> Indeed, but then wasn't it you arguing *against* having it in the base 
> spec? (see <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg00239.html>)

I was arguing against having it in the first version, which I had planned 
for Q3 2009 IIRC, and was planning on defining it as an extension protocol 
in early 2010 (I even had a strawman ready). The hybi group argued and 
argued and argued and argued and then decided to not have it in the first 
version, which they ended up doing in Q4 2011, and still haven't done the 
extension. So yeah, I stand by my point above.

Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Tuesday, 23 October 2012 21:12:40 UTC

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