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Re: neural networks being purported as KR?

From: Pascal Hitzler <phitzler@googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:24:38 -0500
To: janowicz@ucsb.edu, Agnieszka Ławrynowicz <agnieszka.lawrynowicz@cs.put.poznan.pl>, Diogo FC Patrao <djogopatrao@gmail.com>
Cc: paoladimaio10@googlemail.com, ontolog-forum <ontolog-forum@googlegroups.com>, SW-forum <semantic-web@w3.org>, W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>
Message-ID: <a92a76dd-7072-9fb6-586b-447f22e0e072@googlemail.com>
Yes. Both are mathematical and computational models for "cognition" (for 
lack of a better term). They just have rather different features.

The deep divide between both paradigms (including in terms of community) 
is very unfortunate, but due to many reasons, some of them historic.

Some resources to look into a more unified perspective:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03902 - this is from a cognitive science 
perspective.

http://www.semantic-web-journal.net/content/neural-symbolic-integration-and-semantic-web 
- with more of a focus on semantic web issues

http://neural-symbolic.org/ - a community which has kept an integrated 
view alive during the AI winter. Right now, it's bubbling up larger-scale.

P.


On 7/26/2019 10:59 AM, Krzysztof Janowicz wrote:
> On 7/26/19 5:00 PM, Agnieszka Ławrynowicz wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Of course deep neural networks may be seen as form of knowledge 
>> representation in my opinion, more precisely they are sub-symbolic or 
>> connectionist representations versus symbolic representations which 
>> are the standard in Semantic Web.
> 
> 
> Same here (and leaving aside that the 'knowledge' in knowledge 
> representation is a problematic term anyway).
> 
> 
>> Though it is not „latest KR”, but have been there for a long time 
>> under exactly the above name (sub-symbolic representations).
>>
>> Best Regards and cheers,
>> Agnieszka
>>
>>
>>
>>> Wiadomość napisana przez Diogo FC Patrao <djogopatrao@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:djogopatrao@gmail.com>> w dniu 26.07.2019, o godz. 16:40:
>>>
>>> Hi Paola
>>>
>>> I'd say a NN is not as "knowledgy" as a decision tree. I would argue 
>>> that NN is a mathematical model that compiles previous data 
>>> representing cause/consequences, so it's the same type of knowledge 
>>> as, say, a logarithm table, versus the type of knowledge the infinte 
>>> sum formula for evaluating logarithms would represent.
>>>
>>> They certainly don't look the same thing to me.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> dfcp
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> diogo patrão
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:58 PM Paola Di Maio 
>>> <paola.dimaio@gmail.com <mailto:paola.dimaio@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Sorry to bang on this topic, but its the task at hand at the moment
>>>
>>>     I just found an article, which is good scientific survey then 
>>>     purports NN as a type of KR
>>>     (casually sneaks in NN as the latest KR)
>>>
>>>     This is published in a Springer peer reviewed publication and my
>>>     makes all of my hairs stand up on my head
>>>
>>>     This is the kind of rubbish that without further qualification is
>>>     being passed down
>>>     as the latest research, and  which the future generations of AI
>>>     scientists are being fed-
>>>
>>>     wonder if anyone else has a problem with this proposition
>>>     (sign of the times?)
>>>     I am doing my best within my means to identify and contain this peril
>>>
>>>     Article
>>>     https://link-springer-com.nls.idm.oclc.org/article/10.1007/s00170-018-2433-8
>>>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__link-2Dspringer-2Dcom.nls.idm.oclc.org_article_10.1007_s00170-2D018-2D2433-2D8&d=DwMDaQ&c=3buyMx9JlH1z22L_G5pM28wz_Ru6WjhVHwo-vpeS0Gk&r=TpLLn6m0QS9xFWETRsVn6EgCZn90oD7nTZw4u7dKTkE&m=-OdcX_2BApaWb3B2Sm-OQqhYaSB9woE4DPmc5xD1Xjg&s=AwOZ0y96WXrVfkqtN4AIzI3du90yzPxz1lpf3hn2HUo&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>     A survey of knowledge representation methods and applications in
>>>     machining process planning
>>>
>>>     The machining process is the act of preparing the detailed
>>>     operating instructions for changing an engineering design into an
>>>     end product, which involves the removal of material from the
>>>     part. Today, machining ...
>>>
>>>     Xiuling Li, Shusheng Zhang, Rui Huang… in The International
>>>     Journal of Advanced Manu… (2018)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> -- 
> Krzysztof Janowicz
> 
> Geography Department, University of California, Santa Barbara
> 4830 Ellison Hall, Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4060
> 
> Email:jano@geog.ucsb.edu
> Webpage:http://geog.ucsb.edu/~jano/
> Semantic Web Journal:http://www.semantic-web-journal.net
> 

-- 
Pascal Hitzler
Brage Golding Distinguished Professor of Research
NCR Distinguished Professor   http://www.pascal-hitzler.de
Director of Data Science      http://www.daselab.org
Wright State University       http://www.semantic-web-journal.net/
Received on Friday, 26 July 2019 16:25:03 UTC

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