Re: natural language visual interface for SPARQL

Paola,
Love your reply!

I suppose there is something like internet philosophy, I should check it
out?

It occurs to me that I am a person who likes small, myself, a few others, a
small work group. But I am interested in something that is intrinsically
very big (actually the eponymous Big Data behind all the development of the
internet) which I simultaneously find thrilling and disturbing.
I can pin point this to issues of identity which I hope I may one day
elaborate through some writing. (I am practising as a psychotherapist now.)
I think Lacan has something to offer here but unfortunately he cloaked what
he had to say in his own inimitable and highly obscure style for, I think,
his own dubious reasons.
I'm going to try The Social Conquest of Earth by EO Wilson.

I think the contribution of Lacan is that we have urges, curiosity and
phantasies towards what are actually generalised concepts, for instance the
Other (l'Autre) also discussed by different writers as Otherness.
We need to know what a discusion is as well as what the subject matter or
that discusion (l'Autre) is.
Surely in these gigantic fluid data sets is to be found the Other, that is
to say our phantasy ideas of what the Other is which are determined by what
we want the Other to mean to us.
I know I am drifting into obscurity myself. But what I am saying is to do
with my initial observation that I have strong emotional responses to the
sense of huge data sets about many other people or groups of people.
At some level it is personal pathology, but on some other level it is a
basis for me to infer similar feelings in other people and to point out
that these feelings are only amplified and accelerated by the internet.

Advertisers, who have long been in the game of manipulation by setting
trends through the creation of artificial ambiant structures, seize on the
eye ball pulling power of the internet as a new means of influencing
people, getting under their skin by influencing norms at group level. I
think they are just beginning to learn how to do this successfully. Their
purpose is to give someone a sense of being in association with some
product. Much could be written about this too.
But one thing is clear, the notion of being on the inside, complying with
the norm, or on the outside and left out, is central to this manipulation.
That plays on feelings directed towards l'Autre through a series of
falsifications aimed at obscuring reality, but resolves none of our fears.
Of course, it is this last point that makes it pernicious and dangerous.


Adam



On 19 August 2012 13:30, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:

> Adasal (ok, Adam)
>
> glad you  can read between the lines:-)
>
>
> > When you move into the area of search you are talking big >business
> interests and this really high lights the whole problem >that confronts the
> public data semantic community.
>
> on the bigger scale, its the control over information in general that
> is political and manipulative
>
>  the web and search engines that allow to use the web
> are inherently disruptive.
>
> resistance to change is a constant all along :-)
>
>
> > The problem two fold, privacy of data/data ownership and business model.
>
> well, a search service simply pulls up data that has been published to
> the web with the intent of making it findable,
>
> business model for the search service is a tad more challenging, but
> there lots of options, advertising being the most obvious
>
>
> > Buying a washing machine is very different to thinking generally about
> global warming.
>
> at some level its not. (if I understand what you say) when buying a
> washing machine nowadays, in addition to the usual price/performace
> considerations, the responsible consumer also thinks global warming
>
>
> > The internet at the moment seems to be more skewed to immediate
> consumption than providing the ground for informed debate
>
> This is because the modern information/media machinery has developed
> as an instrument of the  consumeristic machinery, and nothing escapes
> the market /profit logic, not even culture, nor education , nor the
> research industry (the public funding of research should be intended
> for the public good, instead the strings of the public reserach funds
> are controlled by individuals and organisations designed to serve the
> interests of a speculative technocratic machine which profits from
> disinformation. its that simple.
>
>
> The internet is either going to play along with the market game,
> as dicta or face serious bad weather - which is a bit what has
> happened in recent years -
>
>
>
> > Meanwhile social media is glammed up and fed by information gathered
> from  individuals that goes to creating that environment through the filter
> of the provision of an income stream for the service provider. This
> inhibits a certain type of innovation.
> >
> well, it doesn't have to . if the 'critical mass' coalesces, enough
> people upholding sustainability principles and rejecting profiteering
> logic of the research industry, perhaps alternatives can emerge.
>
> humanity evolves  through higher levels of knowledge (consciousness
> for those who are not afraid of the word )
>
> neanderthat>>> sapiens>>>?
>
>
> > Contemplating alternatives is difficult.
>
> life is difficult-
>
>
> >> But a more negative reflection of the true state of the world would
> > be dangerous (cause unrest) so those highly trained editors would never
> allow it.
>
> ah, you have come across that issue of media ownership/information
> control/information policy/manipulation of public resources too
>
>
> > Thinking about the content reflected in search results I think that the
>  internet does allow this debate in the form of mailing list type forum -
>
> yes-  the open web and search engines, with all their limitations, are
> fantastic as they are imho , and we spend far too much time plastered
> to it
>
> let make the most of it.?
> :-)
>
>
> cheers
>
> PDM
>
>  it is just that I may not have explored as much as I might - so the
> question
> > about semantic search might be how results would more intelligently
> reflect
> > some of this public debate - if that is what someone is looking for?
> > Something along those lines?
> > That is a more intelligent understanding of topics.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> >
> >
> > On 19 August 2012 11:30, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hellew Hugh
> >>
> >> >>I can sort of begin to imagine how it might be done, but it would >>be
> >> >> >>quite hard work.
> >>
> >> any search agorithm hides extreme complexity-
> >>
> >> a search engine is a simple interface that covers it up (for my luck)
> >> and allows the user to dig
> >>
> >> standard search brings up a  blanket result, while
> >> advance search allows the search algorithm to be modified
> >> according to more defined criteria
> >>
> >> I annot possibly understand why there isnt such a thing as a semantic
> >> search public engine yet
> >>  (or is there?? give  now please :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> >>>And so I can't make the business case to do it -
> >> lots in public funding spent to develop the SW, i would have thought
> >> this kind of feature would be a priority for research?
> >> when something works a business model can be built around it
> >>
> >> have a good Sunday
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> P
> >>
> >
>