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Re: Salmon Protocol for automatic RDF store augmentation?

From: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:43:41 +0000
To: Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>, John Panzer <jpanzer@google.com>
CC: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, Semantic Web community <semantic-web@w3.org>
Message-ID: <C789A1BD.C64D%michael.hausenblas@deri.org>

Danny, John,

Looks very promising to me. I guess we will use our Atom-based dady demo [1]
and extended it in this direction. Keep you posted ...


[1] http://code.google.com/p/dady/wiki/Demos

Dr. Michael Hausenblas
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730

> From: Danny Ayers <danny.ayers@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 01:29:11 +0100
> To: John Panzer <jpanzer@google.com>
> Cc: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, Semantic Web community
> <semantic-web@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Salmon Protocol for automatic RDF store augmentation?
> Resent-From: Semantic Web community <semantic-web@w3.org>
> Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:29:59 +0000
> On 29 January 2010 18:31, John Panzer <jpanzer@google.com> wrote:
>> That's an interesting use case.  B would be a service providing additional
>> assertions back to A, right?  So instead of the signer being an identifier
>> for a human, it would be an identifier for a service.
> Yeah, exactly so.
>> And A could re-syndicate B's additions back out as-is ("B says this") and/or
>> it could just incorporate them directly into its store and send out
>> resulting updates.
> Ditto.
>> (Note: In Atom-land, we're leaning on PubSubHubbub as the protocol for both
>> enabling real-time feed data push and computing efficient diffs to send to
>> clients.  Diffs are entry-based, so either an entire entry is sent or not,
>> but clients only see the new/changed entries rather than the entire feed
>> when they're pushed the data.  This may not be granular enough for RDF
>> though.)
> To be honest I'm not sure how things stand in RDF-land on that
> specific front (SPARQL 1.1, with update stuff being in discussion is
> something I suspect a lot of people are hanging on).
> PubSubHubbub seems a very rational approach to bidirectional comms,
> but there is at least one issue in this context.
> Both PubSubHubbub and Salmon are focussed on the literal wordiness of
> human-expressed text (with all the benefits of good old semantic
> markup - has anyone claimed gosh yet?).
> With links.
> The drive of the linked data stuff (I almost feel embarrassed by
> calling it Semantic Web these days) is to do the same stuff for
> entities that exist outside the Web, just named resources and
> relationships between them.
> The RSS syndication thing hit one sweet spot for a reflection of
> humans typing stuff, but still we have a lot more stuff on computers
> than blog posts. All the social stuff is begging to get tied together
> through the stuff we know works. There's all the, er, data, about
> things in the real real world that we can talk about in databases but
> hasn't actually been expressed on the Web. The linked data approach
> pulls that into the same techniques and strategies we know work for
> the Web.
> There's huge opportunity to reuse the kind of material
> (content-oriented) stuff along with other kinds of known material.
> (sorry if my language is a bit weird, got Tony Blair puppet show on
> the tv in the background)
> Ok, presumably T. Blair has a Wikipedia entry. But how do you get to
> the place he lives (Dubai is my guess) and how much he helped the
> Middle-Eastern conflict? There is straight data to answer a lot of the
> direct questions, which is far more accessible than human language in
> a (no matter how) syndicated blog post. Google is an unreliable
> stopgap.
> Back to optimism, links. Get as many URLs in there as possible.
> I'd like to charm you into RDF, but I don't need to - things linked
> together work altogether. Stuff like Salmon, PubSubHub+ (you asked
> Rohit about that..? :) working with HTTP works. Joining it together is
> the challenge...oh yes, and building compelling applications...
> (btw, I live in Atom-land sometimes too - check the contribs in the
> format spec :)
> Cheers,
> Danny.
> -- 
> http://danny.ayers.name
Received on Saturday, 30 January 2010 08:44:18 UTC

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