- From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:18:22 +0000
- To: Kjetil Kjernsmo <kjetil@kjernsmo.net>
- Cc: semantic-web@w3.org
Re adoption, basically I can't really point most hackers or implementers at the RDF specs without terrifying them (yes, syntax matters). A lot of them get overwhelmed - so when explaining RDF for the first time, to be honest I tend to point them at TimBL's N3 tutorial [1] and *then* the specs. A simplification of the current specs is needed, with the things everyone uses (i.e. named graphs) added into the spec, with things like bags and list dropped. I also would like to have a decent way to express ordered lists in RDF and a clearly blessed (i.e. Turtle) syntax, along with JSON and Atom serializations. I think this is important for the future of RDF - new apps are great, but we need more programmers, and giving the specs a spring-cleaning would help. On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Kjetil Kjernsmo <kjetil@kjernsmo.net> wrote: > All, > > Like some others, I think the adoption problem is not solved by another > spec, but by actually writing useful stuff. Still, I think there are things > that should be fixed, but relatively minor things. I'm +1 on stuff like > graph naming, kill bag, rec on serialisations, etc, but let me also bring > forward one little thing that is of major importance: Units. > +1. This is a major problem - one that also haunts XML Schema Data-types. Jen Tennison has some excellent work in this area [1]. Perhaps extensible data-typing is what is needed? [1] http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/Primer.html [2] http://www.jenitennison.com/datatypes/ > There are no good ways to express the units of numbers in RDF. Yet, most > numbers out there are expressed with units. You could do it with datatype > URIs, but datatypes are orthogonal to units. You could do it with some > hacks, people have been doing that, but it quickly gets complicated and far > from ideal. We really need a simple way to express units, and ways to make > it possible for agents to convert numbers between different units. > > Concrete example: Lets use DBPedia to find aircrafts with a certain maximum > take-off-weight that can take off from airfields with a certain maximum > runway length. All the data is on Wikipedia, and writing the SPARQL query > should be easy (actually doing it is left as an exercise to the reader ;-) > ). > > But it can't be done, at least not without a lot of painful hacking on the > client side, partly because not all the data is in DBPedia (notably, the > take-off-run when the aircraft is fully loaded i.e. at MTOW), but > importantly because of the units used, see e.g.: > http://dbpedia.org/page/Stockholm-Arlanda_Airport > where the numbers are dimensionless, and the unit is in the property, e.g.: > dbpprop:r1LengthF, while the MTOW is expressed like this: > dbpprop:maxTakeoffWeightMain "20,200 lb"@en ; > for http://dbpedia.org/page/Cessna_Citation_Excel > > So, this is actually pretty useless. You cannot do the stuff that Linked > Data should be good at with this. > > So, you could say that this could be done Right and Consistently, whatever > Right may be, but when we, as a community (DBPedia is our community > project, right) has failed to do it Right, I would blame it on that it is > too hard to do Right. > > Not only is this important for everyday applications, it is also > indispensable for most scientific applications. So, that's my main > requirement. > > Cheers, > > Kjetil > -- > Kjetil Kjernsmo > kjetil@kjernsmo.net > http://www.kjetil.kjernsmo.net/ > >
Received on Monday, 18 January 2010 14:18:57 UTC