RE: Proposed changes to Semantic Web logo policies

On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 23:00 +0200, Peter F Brown wrote:
> "Yes. However, attribution that the logo comes from W3C is required in
> the draft policy."
> 
> That sounds fair enough: in other words, an IP claim to the image rights
> rather than a claim that this pictogram reflects the W3C-only vision of
> the SW? 

Yes.

Is the Semantic Web defined exclusively by W3C? Obviously the W3C Comm
Team is promoting a very strong association between Semantic Web and
W3C. I don't think we should or can police how the term "Semantic
Web" is used. Instead I prefer to try to lead by providing a forum for
the community to reach consensus, and by providing support through a
harmonized logo set, educational materials, etc.

> I know I'm pushing it a bit, but this could be very useful...

I find this an interesting balancing act. Thanks for asking for
clarification.

 _ Ian

> Regards,
> 
> Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian B. Jacobs [mailto:ij@w3.org] 
> Sent: 22 October 2007 22:58
> To: Peter F Brown
> Cc: semantic-web@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Proposed changes to Semantic Web logo policies
> 
> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 22:54 +0200, Peter F Brown wrote:
> > Ian:
> > I appreciate the hard work that has gone in to something that seems 
> > very simple.
> > 
> > I'm probably late to the party on this but I have a couple of comments
> 
> > regarding the "colophon" and the logo's use, rather than the logo 
> > itself (which I think is economical, clean and simple):
> > 
> > - for me, the statement that "The three sides of the tri-color cube in
> 
> > these logos evoke the triplet of the RDF model" doesn't stand up to 
> > even the barest metaphorical scrutiny. If you want people to believe 
> > that such a logo does evoke what you state, there must be a minimum 
> > metaphorical association, and I don't see it: the (overly simplistic) 
> > appeal to "translate" the three colours into a triple...hmmmm, I don't
> 
> > buy it, and actually find it confusing. The problem obviously with 
> > many metaphors is they break when pushed too hard, but this one seems 
> > to fall over immediately. Also, the idea that my data might be found 
> > in a clean and tidy 3-dimensional box, when in reality it's a fluid 
> > mess all over the place, doesn't fit with the image: problem is: I 
> > like the image ;-)
> 
> Glad you like it. :) Let me postpone design discussion and focus on
> usage policy.
> 
> > - on a more "political" point: if one does not accept the premise that
> 
> > "'Semantic Web' equals 'the W3C stack of SW technologies'", but 
> > believes that there are some/many non-W3C 
> > standards/specifications/technologies
> > that nonetheless are contributing to the building of a "semantic web"
> > (or as Ora Lassila has often said "semantic webs"), can one 
> > nonetheless use the logo (one without the W3C signature clearly) to 
> > denote such non-W3C work?
> 
> Yes. However, attribution that the logo comes from W3C is required in
> the draft policy.
> 
>  _ Ian
> 
> > I can accept that I've missed the boat as regards the first point, but
> 
> > I would like clarification on the second...
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Peter
> > 
> > -------------
> > Peter F Brown
> > Founder, Pensive.eu
> > Chair, CEN/ISSS eGovernment Focus Group Director, OASIS Co-Editor, 
> > OASIS SOA Reference Model Lecturer at XML Summer School
> > ---
> > Personal:
> > +43 676 610 0250
> > http://public.xdi.org/=Peter.Brown
> > www.XMLbyStealth.net
> > www.xmlsummerschool.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org]
> > On Behalf Of Ian B. Jacobs
> > Sent: 22 October 2007 22:27
> > To: semantic-web@w3.org
> > Subject: Proposed changes to Semantic Web logo policies
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Every time I work on logos, I learn something new! The main lesson so 
> > far from the Semantic Web logos: Get more feedback on usage policy 
> > before deploying. Thank you all for your comments. Most of them 
> > related to the usage policy, so you will find a proposal for a new one
> below.
> > 
> > Please send your comments to semantic-web@w3.org on the proposed 
> > policy by 29 October 2007.
> > 
> > Here is a summary of what I read in your comments:
> > 
> >  1) In general, a desire to use:
> > 
> >     a) the cube on its own or with "Semantic Web" and not the
> >        W3C logo.
> >     b) the cube with other visual imagery (than the W3C logo).
> >       
> >  2) On the Web, more flexibility in the use of links. In particular,
> >     for the technology badges, the ability to link to:
> > 
> >     a) The home page of the relevant technology
> >     b) Data or other applications of the technology
> > 
> > I hope the following proposal helps get us there.
> > 
> > --------
> > Proposal
> > --------
> > 
> > Note: In what follows, the phrase "cube and cube+'Semantic Web'"
> > refers to two logos that we would make available: one is the cube 
> > alone, the other the cube followed by the string "Semantic Web".
> > Neither uses the W3C logo.
> > 
> >  1) The logos with the "W3C logo" in them can be distributed
> >     freely and used without permission but not modified. This
> >     corresponds to the W3C Document license, or, I believe,
> >     this Creative Commons license:
> >        http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
> > 
> >  2) The cube and cube+'Semantic Web' can be distributed
> >     freely. They can be used for derivative works (including used
> >     with other imagery and modifications to the cube colors)
> >     without permission as long as:
> > 
> >        - The cube shape is not changed.
> >        - There is attribution of W3C (following some
> >          guidelines that we still need to draft).
> > 
> >     This Creative Commons license seems close:
> >     http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/us/
> > 
> >     Any other usage would require W3C permission.
> > 
> >  3) People need to contact W3C before making any commercial use
> >     of any of these logos. W3C may start doing more to
> >     support itself by selling mugs, etc. I'd like to keep
> >     that possibility open.
> > 
> >  4) On the Web:
> > 
> >     a) The cube and cube+'Semantic Web' can link anywhere.
> >     b) The technology badges can link anywhere, but W3C
> >        recommends some URIs (e.g., for SPARQL, 
> >        the URI of the home page for that technology).
> >     c) The Semantic Web logos with "W3C" in them must
> >        link to the W3C site (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/).
> > 
> > If there is support for this proposal, I will update [1] accordingly, 
> > adding details such as the recommended URIs.
> > I'll also add links to the "cube and cube+'Semantic Web"
> > logos in various formats.
> > 
> > If you do not support the proposal, please suggest alternatives.
> > 
> > Thanks to Susie and Benji for helping to explain the relation of the 
> > cube to the RDF triple image; per Susie's email [2] I have added a FAQ
> 
> > question.
> >  
> > Thanks again to everyone for providing feedback,
> > 
> >  - Ian Jacobs, Head of W3C Communications
> > 
> > P.S. This creative use of the logo was brought to my attention:
> >  http://gridinoc.name/b.noise/2007/10/semantic-web-logo.html
> > 
> > I think the new policy enables this sort of creativity. 
> >  
> > [1] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/sw-logos
> > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Oct/0164
> > 
-- 
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/
Tel:                     +1 718 260-9447