- From: Richard Cyganiak <richard@cyganiak.de>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:32:06 +0200
- To: Rikkert Koppes <rikkert@finalist.com>
- Cc: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>, Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>, semantic-web@w3.org
Keep in mind that an OpenID, in web architecture terms, is an information resource. A document. It's your passport, not you. Same for an OpenID alias. Thus, using your homepage as an OpenID alias simply makes your homepage a multi-function document. This doesn't make its URI a homonym. “Swiss army knife” isn't one either. See also Tim's response to DavidP earlier in the thread. Best, Richard On 12 Jun 2007, at 06:59, Rikkert Koppes wrote: > > Sure, forbidding homonyms seems like a gooed idea, but I wonder if > this is also possible. Doesn't homonym URI alread exist? > > To illistrate an example: www.example.com might be (identified as) > a person's home page. But it might include a link element linking > to an openId endpoint (www.example.com/openId, say). We do have two > different URI's for two different things, but www.example.com is > also a alias for the openId endpoint (by virtue of the link element). > > What should we do when making statements about someone owning the > site and also using the openId alias? Can we safely say that the > thing the uri identifies (the web site, document) is in fact the > openId alias? I don't think so. It is the uri itself, so we > therefore might contain it as a string literal in a statement about > the person's openId alias. > > Rikkert Koppes (mophor) > > Sandro Hawke schreef: >> Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us> writes: >> >>> Tim, as this discussion gets to the heart of what >>> Ive been trying to argue for several years, >>> please take the comments below as intended in a >>> spirit of analysis rather than just pins and >>> angels. >>> >> >> Pat, I'm going to jump in here, if you don't mind. I think my >> position >> on these issues is pretty much the same as Tim's but I could be >> wrong. >> I don't argue that John's "dance" isn't required, just that part >> of the >> Semantic Web version of the dance is: don't make your URIs >> unnecessarily >> ambiguous. One might even say: don't pun. >> >> >>> And what about a URI >>> that I own and wish it to denote, say, the planet >>> Venus, or my pet cat? What do I do, to attach the >>> URI to my intended referent for it? >>> >> >> You publish a document (an ontology) so it's available through >> that URI. >> If it's a hash URI, you publish the ontology at the non-hash version. >> If it's a slash URI, you publish the ontology at the far end of a 303 >> redirect. And you content-negotiate HTML and RDF. >> >> So when users paste that URI into their browser, they get the >> official >> documentation about it. >> >> And when RDF software dereferences that URI, it gets some logical >> formulas which should be understood (like the HTML) to be asserted >> by the >> URI's owner/host/publisher. Those formulas constrain the possible >> meanings of that URI, relative to other URIs. They can't nail a >> URI to >> Venus, but they can use other ontologies to provide useful (and >> possibly >> very constraining) information, like that it's an astronomical >> body with >> a mass of about 5e+24kg. >> >> My advice here is, I confess, not widely followed. But I hear >> more and >> more people converging on the idea that this is both practical and >> likely to be sufficiently effective. >> >> >>> The point surely is that URIs used to refer (not >>> as in HTTP, but as in OWL) do *not* have a >>> standardized meaning. Standards are certainly a >>> chore to create, but they only go so far. OWL >>> defines the meanings of the OWL namespace, but it >>> does not define the meanings of the FOAF >>> vocabulary, >>> >> >> No, that's up to the owner(s) of the FOAF terms. >> >> >>> or the URIrefs used in, say, >>> ontologies published by the NIH or by JPL. >>> >> >> And that's up to the NIH and JPL, respectively. >> >> >>> The >>> only way those meanings can be specified is by >>> writing ontologies: and finite ontologies do not >>> - cannot possibly - nail down referents >>> *uniquely*. >> >> Ah -- there we go. There must be a long history of this subject in >> philosophy. Can things ever be nailed down uniquely? I haven't a >> clue. >> But that's the wrong question. In this thread, I don't think we're >> talking about whether we can really be sure what we mean when we say >> such a URI denotes Venus. Instead, we're talking about whether >> it's a >> good practice to use a single URI to denote clearly distinct things, >> such as: >> (1) the second rock from the sun >> (2) the Roman goddess of love >> (3) a star tennis player >> (4) ... etc >> The term "ambiguity" covers both these issues, but we don't need to >> combine them. The first is a kind of imprecision, a fuzziness, >> while >> the second is the re-use of a word for a second meaning, a homonym. >> (Homonyms seem to be called "overloading" in computer programming.) >> >> I think we know how to work with homonyms, but since we're >> engineering a >> new system, it seems like a good design decision to forbid them, >> doesn't >> it? >> >> -- Sandro >> >> > >
Received on Tuesday, 12 June 2007 07:33:00 UTC