- From: <tim.glover@bt.com>
- Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:08:50 +0100
- To: <sowa@bestweb.net>
- Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>
John, I agree that language design requires taste and judgment, and that RDF and OWL conspicuously lack both. More generally, the obsession with using XML and URIs for everything, including programming language syntax, has been a disaster for the Semantic Web, and the Web in general, and must have cost billions. Fortunately I think pragmatic considerations are finally beginning to prevail over dogma, and N3 seems to be an example (though they still feel they have to describe implication as the predicate of a triple and precede all their keywords with a namespace and colon!). So now maybe we are ready to move on in other areas. Specifically on the subject if rules: I am baffled by the various attempts to devise new syntaxes for small subsets of PROLOG. Can the various semantic web rule languages do anything that PROLOG could not do better decades ago? It seems to me that in order to make progress, we have to look backwards for a while. When the SW community is familiar with PROLOG perhaps they will be ready to move forwards, to pragmatics :) Tim. -----Original Message----- From: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa Sent: 30 March 2006 01:05 To: Harry Halpin Cc: semantic-web@w3.org; Frank Manola; Adrian Walker; Peter F. Patel-Schneider; psp@virtualTaos.net; ONTAC-WG General Discussion Subject: Re: Semantic Layers (Was Interpretation of RDF reification) Harry, For "pragmatics", read "purpose", "relevance", and "intent". I certainly admit that current methods of NLP don't do a good job of deriving that kind of information from ordinary language. On the other hand, they don't do a good job of deriving the syntax and semantics either. But what I meant about RDF and OWL is that the original *humans* didn't have a clear idea of what, why, and how anybody was going to use that stuff. There was no design competition or evaluation of alternatives. They just froze the spec's at an alpha-level stage without building and testing any prototypes. > But as far as pragmatics as a distinct subject matter and > discipline goes, I would go as far to say that there aren't > even any good second-rate theories, much less first-rate > theories. And without an even informal theory, one can't > formalize (or even vacuously formalize), much less standardize > in the domain independent way needed by the SemWeb and other KR. True. But there are humans who have good taste. Steve Jobs, for example, outperformed IBM, Microsoft, and Xerox management in recognizing the potential of what became the Macintosh. And then he outperformed all the market studies by Sony in developing the iPod. Designing a good language requires a lot of good taste and a very large amount of test studies, design competitions, etc., to evaluate alternatives. Anyone with good taste who looks at RDF and OWL tends to... (You can fill in the dots with colorful metaphors.) But even if those languages looked good, a lot of testing would be required to ensure that they served the purpose -- assuming that anyone had a clear idea of what their purpose was supposed to be, which I seriously doubt. > That's a problem with KR in general, not just the SemWeb, > and resolving that problem lies in the hands of SemWeb > application deployment, which would vary from context to > context. And that appears to be one of the problems that > led to AI winter. If you're saying that nobody knows the requirements for a good KR system, I'm willing to agree. That is why the idea of edicting an alpha-level design without any testing or design competition was ill conceived. That's also why I designed the Flexible Modular Framework and made sure that it could support any or all KR languages (or even natural languages, for that matter) that anyone might desire. My major complaint about IBM's Future System of the 1970s, about every version of Microsoft Windows, and about the SemWeb is that they aren't flexible or modular. The only one that has proved to be successful so far is Windows, but with enormous expense. The current estimate for MS Vista is $40 billion, and it is many years behind schedule. Apple's OS X is built on top of a version of Unix, which is much more flexible and modular than Windows. Therefore, they have already implemented most of the features that are planned for Vista at a fraction of the cost in time, money, and human effort. Moral: I suggest that the SemWebbers either think more like Steve Jobs than Bill Gates or that they do more design competitions and evaluation of alternatives. John
Received on Thursday, 30 March 2006 11:09:06 UTC