- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:41:51 -0400
- To: Andrei Sambra <andrei@fcns.eu>
- CC: peter williams <home_pw@msn.com>, 'WebID XG' <public-xg-webid@w3.org>
On 4/6/11 5:14 PM, Andrei Sambra wrote: > On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 16:47 -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote: >> On 4/6/11 4:16 PM, peter williams wrote: >>> The single biggest road block I have is that my realtors take their personal >>> laptop into their brokers office where they rent desk space (having just had >>> webid working fine, over starbucks wifi); and webid stops working. That's >>> because the larger corporate brokers run firewalls that intercept https - >>> which breaks webid. >>> >>> This is the reality of my user group ; they are half corporate, half >>> consumer; being intensely mobile. Though their laptops are windows home >>> edition (or worse), which they connect to enterprise lans - at which point >>> the DHCP service auto-issues the PC LAN connection a new web proxy endpoint >>> - which then does the https interception (and thus the webid interference). >>> To talk to the broker's sharepoint LAN site (which delivers them their >>> broker backoffice tools), they have already imported the broker's root cert >>> (issued by the local Microsoft CA). So the proxy (based on the same root) >>> appears seemless to them, as it spoofs the real https sendpoint. >>> >>> Being consumer-grade users, they they just will not tolerate something >>> working and not working, depending where they plugin their PC. They probably >>> don't give a damn about the friendly broker doing the interception thing >>> (the whole liability handoff thing is part of the realtor/broker handshake). >>> >>> Now, technically, we may have to develop a layer 7 bridge, in which one can >>> post SSL messages over HTTP POST, to tunnel **past** the "interfering" TLS >>> web proxy. This is perhaps where the ssl client built in a page's javascript >>> comes in, I think. >>> >>> So Long as ONLY the client authn https handshake is tunnelled OVER the >>> https-intercepting/interfering firewall, I don't think there would be any >>> objection to a layer 7 SSL deployment that bypasses the intercepting proxy. >>> Realty brokers (enforcing legal regulations on spying, snooping, data >>> retention, etc in order to cover their very major financial liabilities) can >>> still insist most "transactional use case" https traffic is intercepted. >> What about IPv6 with IPSec enhanced with WebID? Could the move to IPv6 >> be an alternative route via WebID tweak of IPSec? >>> Ok, this is the art of making research into a product someone wants to buy. >> Yes, but also one of the more extreme since the whole world needs to >> unshackling from myopic data silos that already pervade the Web. >> >> I think being able deal with the following already hits the opportunity >> cost palpability mark: >> >> 1. Sharing resources across Depts >> 2. Ditto across Divisions >> 3. Ditto across InterWeb. >> >> On the personal front: >> >> 1. Sharing ACL protected resources across InterWeb -- photos, music, >> videos, bookmarks, calendars, addressbooks, reports etc.. >> 2. ACL protecting comments - blogs, wikis etc.. >> 3. Smart notification services -- SemanticPingbacks vs broken Web 2.0 >> Pingback >> 4. Inbox reclaim -- WebID enhanced S/MIME (which we've already >> implemented successfully). >> >> > I am actually doing research on these topics, as part of my PhD. (though > I've recently started), so I should be able to at least get an overview > of current possibilities and maybe propose some improvements soon. I > will try to put together a small "paper" on it. Great! Keep us all posted :-) Kingsley > Andrei > >> Kingsley >> >> >> >> >>> It has to actually work in the reality folks live in, not research reality. >>> I don't mind selling the future a bit (to show the movement has 5+ years of >>> momentum), but it HAS to actually work, today. >>> >>> Ok. Is there anything a browser vendor can do to help enable SSL engines - >>> running in javascript? >>> >>> For windows for example, they can make the SSL ciphersuites available to the >>> COM API usable by IE-hosted pages, so the platform's primitives deliver the >>> specialized SSL HMACing, and the sessionid caching, etc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: public-xg-webid-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-webid-request@w3.org] >>> On Behalf Of Kingsley Idehen >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 9:21 AM >>> To: Peter Williams >>> Cc: WebID XG >>> Subject: Re: How to request a WebID? >>> >>> On 4/6/11 11:58 AM, Peter Williams wrote: >>>> Using the myxwiki as a test platform, I found something strange: >>>> >>>> Having used opera to enroll and the export the credentials to a . P12 >>>> file >>>> >>>> 1 I could complete webid using an opera browser on several versions of >>>> windows (having imported the .p12) >>>> >>>> 2 I could do the same with install versions of ie 8 and 9 (after .p12 >>> import). >>>> 3 on the same pc as the ie case, my own https client will fail to complete >>> webid - using the same certs as available to ie. (all acls, etc, were >>> addressed). Something in the webservice client/server lib for the x509token >>> validator behavior seems to prevent the cert bring used (even though it >>> supplied as the desired cert at the API). >>>> If I guess, it's because the cert from myxwiki is missing the pkix client >>> authn oid. But this is only a guess. I cannot easily tell where the enforcer >>> might be: whether it's clientside or serverside enforced. >>> Peter, >>> >>> I assume you are repeating these tests using: >>> http://id.myopenlink.net/ods ? I would appreciate QA and feedback re. >>> that ODS based service too. >>> >>> You should be able to use IE, Safari, FF, Opera, and Chrome. >>> >>> Safari, IE, Chrome, and FF (plus .NET extension) will talk to the local host >>> OS key store. >>> >>> Opera and FF (modulo .NET extension) use their own stores. >>> >>> >>> Kingsley >>>> On Apr 6, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Henry Story<henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6 Apr 2011, at 17:18, Peter Williams wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What l learned by trial is that not all browsers use the hints in the ca >>> message of ssl. Others use it, quite literally. Both behaviours are >>> conforming, as the message contains hints (only) by design. Your >>> implementation may cue off the hints, or it may ignore them. Opera ignores. >>> Ie uses. I dont know what safari does. I don't know what 10 browsers in >>> iPhone-like phone browsers do. >>>>> That's what we need a precise description of. Which browsers do, >>>>> which don't. If enough do it, then it may be worth working on this. It >>> comes up regularly. >>>>> So I'll add to the issue that it requires working out which browsers this >>> functions on. >>>>>> In my https client, I uses a STD dialog of windows, also used by ie I >>> suspect. The dialog allows several selectors, each of which constrain which >>> of the certs in a users personal trust store are shown. (I don't know if >>> this works on a windows phone, though.) Two options are natural (they are >>> the kind of knowhow a security professional would be expected to show, on a >>> certification test): using cert policy oid (as selector), using application >>> policy oid (as selector). >>>>>> There is another angle: whether any and all (selected) certs should be >>> shown that match, or only those that have the netscape (or better the iso) >>> client usage oid. But this begs yet another question: must that extension be >>> marked critical? If it's not, an implementation is entitled to ignore it's >>> hint. Thus unit test for client tend to be platform specific, unless one is >>> careful. >>>>> The Java libraries I have been working with add the netscape client >>>>> usage oid. Anyone testing should try to get an idea of how each >>>>> browser works currently, taking those into account. The we can see where >>> we are starting from. >>>>> >> > > > -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen President& CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
Received on Wednesday, 6 April 2011 21:42:15 UTC