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Minutes of Dec. 16, 2010 LLD Meeting

From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:57:33 -0800
Message-ID: <20101216145733.37834v4idnhafot9@kcoyle.net>
To: "public-xg-lld@w3.org" <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
The minutes of this week's meeting are available online at:

They are also below in text format.

- kc

****** As Text ********


       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                 LLD XG

16 Dec 2010


       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0054.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-lld-irc


           emma, kefo, antoine, kcoyle, marcia, TomB, rsinger, LarsG,
           markva, jodi, pmurray, michaelp, edsu, rayd, uldis

           Gordon, Alex_C, Jeff, Felix, Kim, Alex_H, Monica, Joachim,
           Kai, Marcia, Martin




      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Administration
          2. [6]final report
          3. [7]use cases
          4. [8]topics -- things other than use cases
      * [9]Summary of Action Items

    <emma> Previous: 2010-12-09


    <uldis> hi emma, i'm Uldis Bojars

    <uldis> we talked on email that i should introduce me at the start
    of the telco -- but i have difficulty connecting to the telco phone

    <emma> Scribe: Karen

    <emma> scribenick: kcoyle

    <uldis> antoine: i promised to introduce myself to the group, but
    have difficulty connecting to the telco bridge. sorry that i won't
    be able to participate in voice, at least for the beginning of the


    RESOLUTION: Minutes accepted

    No telecons for the next two weeks

    Next call will be January 6, 2011

Final report

    There is the lingering terminology issue that needs to be resolved

    proposed in cologne:

      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0005.html

    PROPOSED: to adopt the terminology proposed in Cologne for the
    future draft report

    markva: "dataset" refers to a third type of thing, such as sets of
    bib records
    ... values int hose records would be value vocabularies

    <TomB> +1 to support
    , noting Antoine's reply at

      [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0095.html
      [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0097.html

    emma: antoine suggested 'reference dataset'

    antoine: some things like name authority are not thought of in the
    library world as vocabularies, but datasets

    markva: antoine is talking about exceptions to markva's typology,
    but these exceptions do not make a difference

    antoine: it's a question of scope

    markva: 1- bib records, 2 - values used in those records from
    vocabularies, 3- properties and classes
    ... 1 - dataset, 2 value vocabularies 3 metadata element set

    <jodi> it's always about the exceptions though ;(

    <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to reinforce that these are being
    classified based on use - not an air-tight typology, as per Mikael

    tomB: we want to come up with 3 intuitively recognizable concepts
    without expecting that things will fall neatly into a single

    <michaelp> Couldn't a dataset be seen as a combination/selection of
    entities from value and element vocabularies?

    tomB: things could be used in different ways

    <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to support flexibility with MARC

    tomB: support distinction between dataset and value vocabulary, even
    though some sets of URIs can be used in more than one way

    antoine: there could be flexibility between group 1 and 2, such as
    marc relators
    ... possible confusion in use of the term "value" -- some people
    have strong association with skosxl label

    tomB: we should not try to be more precise than: value vocabulary is
    a set of terms that are/may be used as values
    ... includes skos concepts and dcmi "type"s

    <edsu> not sure if it's totally relevant, but danbri announced the
    Linked Datasets with the voiD Vocabulary w3c note which could
    provide some foundation for talking about "dataset":

      [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2010Dec/0161.html

    <TomB> +1 for Mark's proposal

    discussing marks' summary:

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Nov/0121.html

    tomB: we agree that data models are not a special category, e.g.

    <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to comment on possible dataset

    antoine: ref. edsu link above, use of "dataset" is dangerous

    emma: datasets are about instances of descriptions

    <TomB> is wondering whether both element sets and value vocabularies
    could be seen as datasets

    <markva> hard to hear, typing in background

    <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask whether element sets are also

    emma: we are defining terms for our report, not other contexts

    tomB: what is NOT a dataset? we could have element sets and value
    vocabularies and they are both datasets
    ... dataset could be everything that isn't in the other 2
    categories; dataset is the more general term

    edsu: note talks about vocabularies; as per antoine, "dataset" is
    any triples, so it's very open

    tomb: element set is "dataset," ed?

    markva: "dataset" is ambiguous; we should keep our audience in mind:
    librarians -- we want to communicate with them

    <jodi> 'bibliographic dataset' is more restrictive, because
    librarians might see that as excluding archival data, say

    emma: value vocabs, metadata datasets... these are datasets
    ... 3 defs: value vocabs, metadatasets, dataset

    <scribe> ACTION: Mark to add these definitions to the wiki page
    [recorded in

    <TomB> edsu, this typology seems consistent with your point at
    , where "element sets" = "RDF vocabulary"

      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Nov/0101.html

    RESOLUTION: to use these three terms as defined in our report

    <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest we discuss the definitions on a
    future call

    tomB: put these defintions on future call

    <kcoyle> I'm available

    <markva> great!

    <TomB> value vocabulary, metadata element set, dataset

    RESOLUTION: the three terms are: value vocabulary; metadata element
    set, and dataset

    <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that Mark post the definitions
    to the list, not just wiki page

    <markva> OK!

    tomB: asks mark to also post the definitions to the list

use cases

    use case work has due date of the end of December

    <emma> [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_BibData

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_BibData

    Reporting on cluster work... Bibliographic Data Cluster: created
    page and posted to mailing list

    No one here to report on authority data

    <michaelp> Yes, we think so.

    vocabulary alignment cluster: will report in January

    archive data cluster: nothing new; probably will not finish by end
    of december

    <edsu> lol (on mute)

    <TomB> "it's always good to try" :-)

    citation cluster: kai has been thinking about vocabulary;
    essentially done

    <pmurray> Agreed. I think the citation group is done for the moment.

    <markva> not clear which action?

    <emma> ACTION: Kai and Ed to curate citations cluster for end of
    December [recorded in
    tes.html#action03] [DONE]


    <edsu> kai's diagram example:


    <markva> unmute me

    digital objects cluster: nothing to report

    all cluster tasks except citation cluster continue

    emma: there are now templates for the use case cluster pages to

    <uldis> TomB: no, not yet

    Welcoming Uldis!

    <TomB> welcome, Uldis!

    Uldis: is working with national library of Latvia on linked data

    <TomB> Uldis's introduction:

      [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0047.html

    What cluster for Uldis? answer: Any that are still ongoing.

    <Zakim> jodi, you wanted to ask about unclustered use cases +
    pending social uses

    jodi: there are several use cases that are not in clusters
    ... there are uses that not yet have use cases; should we have a
    miscellaneous cluster?
    ... or add them to an existing cluster?
    ... there are things we wanted to take into account, such as more
    social activities around bibliographic data, social uses of
    bibliographic data
    ... should we add these?

    at_should_be_covered_by_use_cases ?



      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0077.html

    <jodi> yes, antoine, that's what I'm referring to

    <jodi> the list email is what's


    emma: if there are missing use cases that were not covered in the
    f2f meeting, we need volunteers to contribute these use cases, but
    it needs to be done soon

    <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to ask about social web

    <jodi> so, more specifically: Link Social Bibliography to a
    Bibliographic Network, Find stuff in several collections

    <jodi> and Find e-books see


    <jodi> so those are the 3 use cases I see in "social uses"

    antoine: asking if Uldis was involved in social web incubator group,
    and could take this on?

    <jodi> we also have 3 use cases that aren't clustered, here:


    <jodi> of those, "using circulation data" could possibly go into
    "social uses"

    problem is that we don't have use cases for these... use cases need
    to be written

    <markva> what do the shepherds of those UCs think where they should
    go? Jodi, Gordon, William

    uldis: would like to team up with someone to do this

    <jodi> Uldis, I'm happy to help with them

    <scribe> ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
    [recorded in

    emma: We should put a call on the list to ask others to contribute
    to these use cases

    <jodi> In terms of the not yet clustered, does 'digitized map
    archive' belong in heterogeneous data?

    emma: unclustered cases... let's try to put them into existing

    <jodi> circulation data is about what gets used. hard to know where
    to put it...

    <markva> UC can also belong to several clusters; dont see problem
    with that

    <jodi> and library address data is different again

    <uldis> antoine: indeed. i own the 'digitized map archive' use case.
    though i am not certain which of existing clusters it fits best

Topics -- things other than use cases

    <emma> [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_SEO

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_SEO

    <rsinger> ?

    <scribe> ACTION: Emma and Antoine to create use case

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action04

    <emma> sorry I've been kicked out !!

    <pmurray> Did we lose our chair?

    yes, we did lose you

    shall we end? are we close enough?

    <markva> captain overboard!

    <markva> antoine, might you step in?

    <rsinger> yes

    <uldis> yes

    <TomB> antoine is taking over to wrap up...

    <scribe> completed use case is unclustered

    all other actions continue

    emma: reminds us to update events page

    this is our way of recording the outreach of the group

    Call ends

    <jodi> see you next year! :)

    <kefo> bye

    <antoine> bye, happy new year to everyone!

    <uldis> happy holidays to everyone! :)

    <michaelp> See you next year

    <edsu> Bonne année :-D

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Mark to add these definitions to the wiki page
    [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster [recorded
    in [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03]

    [PENDING] ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and
    discuss JISC work on next call [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Volunteers to send login information (openid
    credentials) to William Waite to curate CKAN [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff to write one or two paragraphs on VIAF design
    discussions [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end
    of december [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Mark (and Jodi and Asaf) to curate digital objects
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
    purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
    feature [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: for each use case champion: on the Vocabularies
    page, link to each URL use case that uses it [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: GordonD and Antoine to study use cases that relate
    to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in
    [PENDING] ACTION: Everyone to update the Events page
    (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events) on the wiki regularly
    [recorded in


    [DONE] ACTION: Emma and Antoine to create use case
    [DONE] ACTION: Kai and Ed to curate citations cluster for end of
    December [recorded in

      [44] http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action04

    [End of minutes]

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Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet
Received on Thursday, 16 December 2010 22:58:07 UTC

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