RE: "Chrome"

I like the distinction between "window chrome" and "semantic chrome".
But I think there's a whole spectrum of semantic chrome sources.  From
most to least trusted, all the following can produce such chrome: OS >
base browser > TTP browser plug-in > TTP script/applet/control >
unintentionally activated script/applet/control > malware emulating the
OS or browser.
 
For example all the things I just listed can generate pop-up dialogs.
Ideally there's needs to be some contextual information in the pop-up
chrome that tells me its source or gives me contextual cues about the
source's trustworthiness.  In scope or not?

  _____  

From: public-wsc-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-wsc-wg-request@w3.org]
On Behalf Of Brad Porter
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 11:24 AM
To: Hal Lockhart
Cc: Mike Beltzner; Bob Pinheiro; Mary Ellen Zurko; public-wsc-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: "Chrome"


Your separation between semantic chrome and the desktop visual chrome is
genius.  Given that, I propose two phrases with definitions:

window chrome -- visual elements used by Desktop browsers or the OS
window manager to surround the web page 

browser-controlled presentation elements -- any user interface
presentation controlled explicitly by the browser and not under direct
web page control

--Brad

Hal Lockhart wrote: 

	The key point I tried to make at the F2F was that the
definitions that
	most of us would like to use for Chrome represent the way we
wish
	browsers work or hope they will work in future. For example, a
strict
	separation between what the application can control and what the
browser
	controls seems desirable to most of us, but does not currently
exist, as
	reported by many sources.
	
	The point of this comment is that first of all, we need to make
this
	clear in our glossary, so as to avoid arguments about current
	violations. Also in evaluating potential definitions, we need to
be
	aware of the present/future distinction. Looking at the thread
below, I
	believe MEZ and Bob have proposed future definitions, whereas
the two
	that Mike found are present definitions.
	
	I see the choice as being between defining Chrome in purely
graphical
	terms (stuff around the edge of the screen) or semantically
(stuff from
	browser not web site).
	
	Hal
	
	  

		-----Original Message-----
		From: public-wsc-wg-request@w3.org
		    

	[mailto:public-wsc-wg-request@w3.org]
	  

		On Behalf Of Mike Beltzner
		Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:13 AM
		To: Bob Pinheiro
		Cc: Mary Ellen Zurko; public-wsc-wg@w3.org
		Subject: Re: "Chrome"
		
		
		A couple of definitions I found ..:
		
		"The interface elements of a browser, or any other
program, that
		create the frame around the window that displays pages."
		   (cite:
http://www.chriscassell.net/classes/2001/winter/gdt150/
		handouts/vocabulary.html)
		
		"The visible graphical interface features of an
application are
		sometimes referred to as "chrome". They include
graphical elements
		(widgets) that may be used to interact with the program.
Common
		widgets are: windows, buttons, menus, and scroll bars.
Larger
		widgets, such as windows, usually provide a frame or
container for
		the main presentation content such as a web page, email
message or
		drawing. Smaller ones usually act as a user-input tool."
		   (cite:
		    

	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface_chrome#GUI_design)
	  

		I think the salient detail is that chrome is what allows
the user to
		interact with the browser alone from interacting with
the web
		content. Bob's point about the display of chrome being
restricted to
		the browser is also good to keep in mind, and relevant
for our
		    

	purposes.
	  

		cheers,
		mike
		
		On 12-Feb-07, at 9:44 AM, Bob Pinheiro wrote:
		
		    

			I thought the key distinction with regard to
"chrome" is that there
			are certain areas of the browser window that are
solely under the
			control of the browser, and not the website
being displayed.  So
			anything displayed in the "chrome" can be
assumed to be coming from
			the browser itself, and not the website.
However, if some browsers
			have areas where both the browser and the
website can communicate
			information, that seems to muddy the issue.
Maybe such areas
			should have a different name, reserving "chrome"
for those areas
			where only the browser can communicate to the
user.
			
			At 08:16 AM 2/12/2007, Mary Ellen Zurko wrote:
			
			      

				During our f2f, the discussion about
"chrome - what is it" came up
				again. The discussion was part of going
over "Poorly defined role
				for chrome". It was a divergence at the
time, so we decided to
				take the discussion to the list. See:
	
http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-wsc-minutes.html
				"what is chrome? diaglog boxes should be
included"
				
				We'll need the definition of Chrome for
the Glossary that Tim is
				pulling together as well.
				
				What I mean to mean by Chrome are the
parts of the window that
				include information that the User
agent/Browser is trying to
				communicate to the user, vs the parts
where the browser is
				(expected to) faithfully represent what
the web site/page is
				trying to communicate to the user. Some
areas in some browsers
				currently contain both (for example, the
title area including both
				the HTML title and browser identity
information).
				
				Anyone else have a better definition?
				
				I also remember people getting fixated
on the word. If the word
				itself is getting in the way of a
concept we consider important,
				then we can start using some other word
which we can all agree on.
				So this might instead be an exercise
where we agree on the concept
				first, then agree on the word we'll use.
				
				
				[ACTION-132 - Start discussion on
mailing list to draw chrome
				items out and get analysis completed [on
Mary Ellen Zurko - due
				2007-02-13].]
				
				          Mez
				
				Mary Ellen Zurko, STSM, IBM Lotus CTO
Office       (t/l 333-6389)
				Lotus/WPLC Security Strategy and Patent
Innovation Architect
				        

			---------------------------------------
			Bob Pinheiro
			FSTC Project Management
			Bob.Pinheiro@FSTC.org
			1 908-654-1939