Re: 8201 - Clarify required and optional operations

RFC 2119 language should be used to describe optionality as it applies 
to the protocol being discussed, not the optionality of choosing to 
engage in the protocol in the first place. "Clients MAY choose to use 
this protocol" is not an appropriate use of the term "MAY"; "Subscribers 
MAY include a wse:EndTo element in the Subscribe message" is.

- gp

On 11/20/2009 7:32 AM, Ram Jeyaraman wrote:
>
> Ø  If a client component doesn't use Subscribe it's not an event 
> subscriber, therefore it isn't participating in the protocol defined 
> by WS-Eventing and it isn't bound by anything WS-Eventing says.
>
>  
>
> True. But the last sentence discusses whether the various operations 
> are required or optional for a client component that plays the role of 
> an event subscriber defined in the specification.
>
>  
>
> Thanks.
>
>  
>
> *From:* Gilbert Pilz [mailto:gilbert.pilz@oracle.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:01 PM
> *To:* Ram Jeyaraman
> *Cc:* Doug Davis; public-ws-resource-access@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: 8201 - Clarify required and optional operations
>
>  
>
> The last sentence is a misuse of RFC2119 terms. If a client component 
> doesn't use Subscribe it's not an event subscriber, therefore it isn't 
> participating in the protocol defined by WS-Eventing and it isn't 
> bound by anything WS-Eventing says. I suggest deleting it.
>
> - gp
>
> On 11/19/2009 2:18 PM, Ram Jeyaraman wrote:
>
> Thinking a bit more about this, how about:
>
>  
>
> Event source endpoint
>
> MUST support Subscribe operation.
>
> MAY send SubscriptionEnd message to an endpoint that supports 
> SubscriptionEnd operation, if reference to such an endpoint is 
> supplied when the subscription was created.
>
> Subscription manager endpoint
>
> MUST support Renew, GetStatus, and Unsubscribe operations.
>
> Endpoint that supports SubscriptionEnd portType, if a reference to 
> such an endpoint is supplied when the subscription was created
>
> MUST support SubscriptionEnd operation.
>
> An event subscriber MAY use Subscribe, Renew, GetStatus, and 
> Unsubscribe operations.
>
>  
>
> Thanks.
>
>  
>
> *From:* public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org> 
> [mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org] *On Behalf Of *Doug 
> Davis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:03 PM
> *To:* public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: 8201 - Clarify required and optional operations
>
>  
>
>
> I hope you mean:
> Subscribe, Renew, Unsubscribe  and GetStatus operations defined in 
> this specification MUST be supported by compliant implementations. the 
> SubscriptionEnd operation defined in this specification MAY be 
> supported by compliant implementations.
>
> thanks
> -Doug
> ______________________________________________________
> STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
> (919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com <mailto:dug@us.ibm.com>
> The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.
>
>
> *Ram Jeyaraman <Ram.Jeyaraman@microsoft.com 
> <mailto:Ram.Jeyaraman@microsoft.com>>*
>
> 11/17/2009 06:37 PM
>
> 	
>
> To
>
> 	
>
> Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>" 
> <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>>
>
> cc
>
> 	
>
> Subject
>
> 	
>
> RE: 8201 - Clarify required and optional operations
>
>  
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
> I agree.
>  
> Further, in order to avoid two normative keywords in a single 
> sentence, I propose [2].
>  
> [2] Revised proposal for WS-Eventing
>  
> Add to Section 3.5 Compliance:
>  
> Subscribe, Renew, and Unsubscribe  operations defined in this 
> specification MUST be supported by compliant implementations. 
> GetStatus and SubscriptionEnd operations defined in this specification 
> MAY be supported by compliant implementations.
>  
> *From:* public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org> 
> [mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org] 
> <mailto:%5Bmailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org%5D> *On 
> Behalf Of *Doug Davis*
> Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:30 PM*
> To:* public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>*
> Subject:* Re: 8201 - Clarify required and optional operations
>  
>
> 2 minor tweaks:
> 1 - s/optional/OPTIONAL/
> 2 - make GetStatus required.
>
> thanks
> -Doug
> ______________________________________________________
> STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
> (919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com <mailto:dug@us.ibm.com>
> The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.
>
> *Ram Jeyaraman <**Ram.Jeyaraman@microsoft.com* 
> <mailto:Ram.Jeyaraman@microsoft.com>*>*
> Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org>
>
> 11/17/2009 03:25 PM
>
> 	
>
>  
>
> To
>
> 	
>
> "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>" 
> <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>>
>
> cc
>
> 	
>
> Subject
>
> 	
>
> 8201 - Clarify required and optional operations
>
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
> 	
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>
> _
> _http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8201
>  
> I had an action item from the previous meeting to write up a more 
> concrete proposal for this issue. Here is a suggested text for 
> WS-Eventing. The same pattern can be applied for other specifications.
>  
> [1] Proposal for WS-Eventing
>  
> Add to Section 3.5 Compliance:
>  
> Subscribe, Renew, and Unsubscribe  operations defined in this 
> specification MUST be supported by compliant implementations. 
> GetStatus and SubscriptionEnd operations defined in this specification 
> are optional and MAY be supported by compliant implementations.
>  
>