- From: Kemp, Devon <Devon.Kemp@cda.canon.com>
- Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:00:08 -0700
- To: "Doug Davis" <dug@us.ibm.com>
- Cc: <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>, <public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <02954887D466F24D9F3FC9F47466DEF00BBF7AB3@cdaexchange.sc.rd.canon.com>
Thanks for the background material Doug - I'll take a look at the
material and get back to you if I have any further questions or
comments.
Best Regards,
-Devon
From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:56 PM
To: Kemp, Devon
Cc: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org;
public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification
Devon,
please see
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/00
16.html - Mode is broken from a composibility and scalability
perspective.
Also, as mentioned by Gil - the proposal does not remove ANY feature
from WS-Eventing - its just a change to what the XML in the subscribe
looks like - and this is done to align it with the rest of the WS-*
stack - which, in the end, is a good thing.
thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM | Standards Architect | IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905 | IBM 444-6905 | dug@us.ibm.com
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.
"Kemp, Devon" <Devon.Kemp@cda.canon.com>
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
04/17/2009 04:05 PM
To
<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
cc
Subject
RE: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification
Greetings-
Canon is also very concerned about the proposal to remove the Delivery
Mode attribute, and defined delivery modes, from the WS-Eventing
specification.
1) Canon has several products currently in the market that contain
implementations of DPWS, which relies on the Push Mode of event
delivery. Should the WS-Eventing specification remove the delivery mode,
our investment in DPWS will be at risk.
2) It appears that you're not requiring any specific type of delivery
mode. We have learned that in order to assure interoperability, there
must be at least one defined type of delivery modes. Push mode has been
used in several applications of DPWS and has proved (at least to us) to
be an easy to implement, common denominator, for eventing messages.
3) The lack of a formal extension point ("Delivery Mode") prevents
easy adoption by other specifications in the industry, reducing
WS-Eventing's usability.
4) Nothing appears to be gained by the removal of the Delivery Mode
attribute. (Don't fix something that isn't broken.)
We ask that you please reconsider your proposal to remove the Delivery
Mode attribute, and keep this in the WS-Eventing specification.
Best Regards,
-Devon Kemp
Canon
From: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Asir
Vedamuthu
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification
Last week, on the WG conference call, I mentioned that we will provide
some clarity on the concept of delivery mode (in WS-Eventing) and
related use cases.
Delivery mode [1] provides a subscriber with a mechanism to specify the
means by which an event is delivered. Delivery mode is represented as a
URI in a Subscribe message [2]. The semantics indicated by a delivery
mode are:
1) Rules for the delivery of events
a) Semantics and lifecycle of a Notification delivery
b) Message Exchange Pattern used (One-way, Request-Response, etc.) and
how the delivery mode binds to those Message Exchange Patterns
c) Format of a response (if any)
d) Configuration parameters or context data (if any) to support the
Message Exchange Pattern
e) Rules for the delivery or other disposition of faults generated
during a Notification delivery
2) Delivery mode specific protocol information (if any) to guarantee
interop
3) Supported delivery formats.
Some portion of the above semantics are captured by an EPR, in a
machine-readable form, but certainly not all. So, there is value added
by a formal mechanism to indicate a delivery mode.
The delivery mode is an extension point in WS-Eventing. The WS-Eventing
specification defines a single built-in delivery mode, Push Mode. Other
delivery modes may be important for external groups or other W3C Working
Groups and are delegated to those groups. This is similar to SOAP
Bindings. The W3C XML Protocol WG defined SOAP Protocol Binding
Framework as an extension point and a concrete binding, SOAP HTTP
Binding (is also identified using a URI [3]). Other groups defined SOAP
bindings such as SOAP-over-JMS and SOAP-over-UDP.
The DMTF WS-Management WG defined three new delivery modes [4] and these
delivery modes have been widely adopted.
Furthermore, based on the WS-RA WG charter [5], the WG deliverables need
to satisfy the following requirements as well:
1) Charter scope - "Mechanisms to allow a subscriber to specify the
means by which an event is delivered and the definition of a push-based
delivery mode".
2) Charter scope - "In order to avoid disrupting the interoperability
of existing implementations, WS-MetadataExchange
<http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/SUBM-WS-MetadataExchange-20080813/> ,
WS-Transfer
<http://www.w3.org/Submission/2006/SUBM-WS-Transfer-20060927/> ,
WS-Eventing
<http://www.w3.org/Submission/2006/SUBM-WS-Eventing-20060315/> and
WS-Enumeration
<http://www.w3.org/Submission/2006/SUBM-WS-Enumeration-20060315/>
should remain compatible with protocols and formats that depend on them,
and offer a smooth migration path from the submission to the standard."
We are aware of two dependant protocols - DPWS [6] (uses Push Mode) and
WS-Management [4] (uses Push Mode and, as mentioned before, defines
three new delivery modes).
[1] http://www.w3.org/Submission/WS-Eventing/#Delivery_Modes
<http://www.w3.org/Submission/WS-Eventing/#Delivery_Modes>
[2] http://www.w3.org/Submission/WS-Eventing/#Subscribe
<http://www.w3.org/Submission/WS-Eventing/#Subscribe>
[3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-soap12-part2-20030624/#http-bindname
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-soap12-part2-20030624/#http-bindname>
[4] http://www.dmtf.org/standards/published_documents/DSP0226.pdf
<http://www.dmtf.org/standards/published_documents/DSP0226.pdf> -
Section 7
[5] http://www.w3..org/2008/11/ws-ra-charter.html#scope
<http://www.w3.org/2008/11/ws-ra-charter.html#scope>
[6] http://specs.xmlsoap.org/ws/2006/02/devprof/
<http://specs.xmlsoap.org/ws/2006/02/devprof/>
We hope this helps.
Regards,
Asir S Vedamuthu
Microsoft Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: public-ws-resource-access-notifications-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-ws-resource-access-notifications-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of bugzilla@wiggum.w3.org
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:37 AM
To: public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org
Subject: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification
http://www.w3..org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6692
<http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6692>
Summary: Remove Mode from the specification
Product: WS-Resource Access
Version: CR
Platform: PC
OS/Version: All
Status: NEW
Severity: major
Priority: P2
Component: Eventing
AssignedTo: public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org
<mailto:public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org>
ReportedBy: david.Snelling@UK.Fujitsu.com
<mailto:david.Snelling@UK.Fujitsu.com>
QAContact: public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org
<mailto:public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org>
The concept of Mode is redundant in the current version of the
specification.
All events can be thought of as being delivered. There is no actual
definition
of "Push Mode" and no other recommended modes. We even have a
MakeConnection
strategy to allow clients behind NATs to fetch events. Likewise,
strategies for
complex queuing and distribution are supportable without adding
additional
modes and are outside the scope of this specification.
Proposal: Remove /s:Envelope/s:Body/*/wse:Delivery/@Mode from the
specification
and all references to Push Mode. A simple explanation of the delivery
idea and
a pointer to some of the techniques available will be needed.
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Received on Tuesday, 21 April 2009 00:00:51 UTC