- From: Yalcinalp, Umit <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>
- Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:27:43 -0800
- To: "David Hull" <dmh@tibco.com>
- Cc: "David Orchard" <dorchard@bea.com>, "Marc Hadley" <Marc.Hadley@Sun.COM>, <public-ws-addressing@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <2BA6015847F82645A9BB31C7F9D641656655EF@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
The proposal reflects exactly what is being agreed, what is being sent elsewhere and what is currently debated: First bullet. You are right. Proposal addresses this bullet. . Second bullet. As far as the one-way SOAP MEP is concerned, the issue for SOAP 1.1 and SOAP 1.2 is two separate issues. SOAP 1.1/HTTP behaviour is addressed by WS-I BP 1.x profile and there is no architected SOAP MEP for one way in SOAP 1.1. SOAP 1.2 one-way MEP is needed and this has been communicated to the XMLP by our group and WSD. We further indicated the issues with the binding to them as well. So, we have told them our requirements, so did WSD. The proposal therefore does not need to address one-way MEP as the consensus of the tc is being addressed with respect to this need elsewhere. Third bullet. Response binding markup was never fully agreed on due to the issues that I have raised, and this is what we are debating right now as to how to address them and what additional constraints that we may require iin the specification if we would like to support it. I will send couple of points for this later on in response to Marc's mail in a separate message. Thanks, --umit ________________________________ From: David Hull [mailto:dmh@tibco.com] Sent: Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 11:16 AM To: Yalcinalp, Umit Cc: David Orchard; Marc Hadley; public-ws-addressing@w3.org Subject: Re: Issue 59 alternate proposal I thought we had reached at least a rough consensus on: * Use 202 as an HTTP response if nothing else is coming back. * We need some kind of one-way SOAP MEP * We should add a "response bindings" markup to usingAddressing to indicate the ways that an endpoint can send back (async) responses. I'm a little concerned to read that we've really only agreed on one of these three. Yalcinalp, Umit wrote: -----Original Message----- From: David Orchard [mailto:dorchard@bea.com] Sent: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 10:06 PM To: Yalcinalp, Umit; Marc Hadley; public-ws-addressing@w3.org Subject: RE: Issue 59 alternate proposal -----Original Message----- From: public-ws-addressing-request@w3.org [mailto:public-ws-addressing- request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Yalcinalp, Umit <snip/> Our proposal specifically defined how the request-response would use two distinct HTTP connections, 202, etc. <snip/> I think it's standard practice to call how a request response uses a protocol including the protocol status codes a "binding". My concern with doing away with MEPs completely is exactly shown by this proposal. Without any kind of protocol/lower level MEP, it is impossible to talk about what happens with request response without talking about a particular binding, in your case SOAP HTTP. In a binding extension that controls interaction patterns like usingAddressing, you end up either a) not talking about meps/bindings/protocols at all, which is very unusable, or b) talking about a specific binding/protocol, which is highly undesirable from a re-use, layering, modularity, and "well-factoring" perspective. Well factored and modularized design of specs is one of the tenets of the Web Services architecture, or at least so it's been said. Dear Dave, I am assuming that you have concerns with both proposals as they both bypass the MEPs in a way. I completely agree with you in sentiment and goals. Ideally, we could have accomplished this within the parameters that you suggested. However, I am just trying to be practical and wearing my product hat on. We have SOAP 1.1/HTTP and SOAP 1.2/HTTP. Both of them are in scope, both are in practice ( AFAIK people are starting to release implementations on the latter). We have a limited time to deliver something useful that people can interoperate on. We can not define MEPs for SOAP 1.1/HTTP. The ongoing discussions at the Async TF has demonstrated to me that there is not really a consensus about how to layer WSDL MEPS and SOAP MEPS and the relationship between them. Among many choices we have discussed, 1-m mappings, getting rid of MEPs altogether, etc. Here we are. Either WS-Addressing wg redisgns WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2.0 and how this is done for all possible binding, etc. or we solve the problem with what we have agreed with. We spent many months in async tf. We had very good discussion, discovered many issues. AFAIK, We did NOT reach consensus. I neither view our proposal as an example of the best possible architecture there is nor will get into a debate of "my-architecture-is-better-than-yours" since it does not apply ;-) but the reality is I personally am looking for is concrete simple rules to point developers to that reflects what they got consensus on: On the wire messages for async with SOAP/HTTP. It is a simple concrete way to solve the problem reflecting the only consensus point we had without rearchitecting the whole stack. Hope the intention is clear. Cheers, Dave The clock is ticking, --umit
Received on Wednesday, 2 November 2005 21:26:48 UTC