[TD] TD Restructuring minutes - 26 October 2016

available at https://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-wot-td-minutes.html.

also as text below.

Best Regards,
Yingying


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    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                       WoT TD restructuring meeting

26 Oct 2016

    [2]Agenda

       [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-ig/2016Oct/0014.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2016/10/26-wot-td-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Dave_Raggett,
           Gregg_Kellogg, Uday_Davluru, Yingying_Chen,
           Takuki_Kamiya, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Dave,
           Victor_Charpeney, Katsuyoshi_Naka

    Regrets
    Chair
           Sebastian

    Scribe
           Yingying

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Logistics
          2. [6]Discussion about JSON-LD 1.1
          3. [7]Properties vs Actions
          4. [8]Other issues
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      * [10]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <kaz> scribenick: yingying_

    <kaz> scribe: Yingying

    [Sebastian is going through the agenda]

Logistics

    Sebastian: All the use cases and proposals regarding on the TD
    are all on github.
    ... there are many going on. The deadline for closing for this
    action is next week.
    ... does it make sense to extend one week?
    ... We need put in new information to current practice
    document.
    ... We need also sometime to implement it. And online PlugFest
    preparation also needs time.
    ... please use github repository to add your stuff regarding
    the TD

Discussion about JSON-LD 1.1

    Sebastian: there is a github issue on it from Dave.

    <kaz> [11]issue-259

      [11] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/259

    Sebastian: what will JSON-LD 1.1 impact the TD?
    ... which we would like to see in JSON-LD 1.1? what kind of
    opportunities are there?
    ... could you introduce yourself @1?

    gregg: I am the editor of JSON-LD 1.0.

    <kaz> [12]JSON-LD 1.0

      [12] https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/

    gregg: I am trying to put things forward in the community
    group. There are request index format for accessing data.
    ... array form is not already convenient.
    ... language can be used as index.
    ... for using index token there are several ways.
    ... the key value is id and the object value will be no
    definitions.
    ... the idea is to have a top level index that object whose
    keys were ids
    ... best practices for doing that will be indicated.

    sebastian: main perspective is that TD should be a format that
    should be very easy to use such that the web developer use it
    just as use other JSON object format.
    ... web developers like easy representation and like to use
    JSON.
    ... we can combine these JSON format and can simply integrate
    the semantics.
    ... JSON-LD does not allow you to use it as use JSON.
    ... are we going to rely on that?

    Victor: you are collecting requirements for new version of
    JSON-LD?

    gregg: just community group no wg.
    ... far too many features to integrate in 1.1 release. one of
    them is closely related to framing or semantics.
    ... beginning of next to start work on it.
    ... there are small group and easy to make consensus.
    ... 2 years the community draft will be ready.
    ... the group is actively developing and would be good to track
    their development

    sebastian: is there something similar to W3C recommendation?

    gregg: we need a wg chartered with updating JSON-LD.

    <sebastian> sorry Dave, you will be the next

    gregg: short timeline there could be but couldn't say yet.

    dave: we need to build way of using JSON for web developers.
    timeline is critical. Now we will setup WG to develop TD spec.
    The time would be short.
    ... we can use their proposals and feed into JSON-LD later.
    ... there are quite lot of use cases and requirements that we
    can feed into the community group.

    victor: community group is working on another version.

    <kaz> [13]proposed WoT WG Charter

      [13] https://www.w3.org/2016/09/wot-wg-charter.html

    kaz: proposed WG charter does not say we would like to use
    JSON-LD, JSON or others specifically. those data models are
    just examples of possible data models for Thing Description..
    ... we should compile our requirements for expected updated
    version to the community group or new created wg for JSON-LD.

    sebastian: yes. it's not mentioned in the proposed charter.
    ... it's said we need to rely on semantic technology.
    ... it's a difficult thing. 2 important things: 1. JSON-LD is
    enough to use in TD. are developers satisfied with it? should
    we go into more details for reviews by web developers.
    ... how would you like to communicate with JSON-LD 1.1
    community group.
    ... another point is whether we need to make changes on it.
    ... if people are not satisfied we need to find other solution.

    victor: how big is the community group for JSON-LD 1.1? are
    there any members who are willing to contribute?

    gregg: hundreds of member. from 5 years people started working
    on it.
    ... could not say now how the group will response to our
    request. probably after we have a proposal, it could be seen.

    <kaz> [14]JSON-LD CG participants

      [14] https://www.w3.org/community/json-ld/participants

    gregg: don't know if it's possible to add your own extension to
    the recommendation.
    ... biggest advantage is that active works are going on to
    support more RDF concept to JSON-LD.

    victor: wondering just contribute to the community group or
    just rely on their work.
    ... about referencing others' work, need to ask W3C staff.

    dave: we see different targets for TD. Powerful device/gateway
    can do a lot of things. for constraint device, json-ld is
    already too much.
    ... would be problematic to reference document from community
    group in the spec.

    victor: I just use JSON for constraint device instead of
    JSON-LD.

    <Victor> sorry, we've been disconnected

    dave: agree on that point. but need to think about way in
    JSON-LD for supporting constraint devices.

    <sebastian> we are back

    gregg: reasonable to have such an extension for constraint
    device, giving subset of JSON-LD for that purpose.

    kaz: we should clarify our requirements on JSON-LD. maybe not
    in the TD document but in our UCR document.

    victor: true. let's try to do that if we need to do that
    clarification for JSON-LD new version.

    sebastian: JSON-LD just one year usage in plugfest is nice from
    people's feedback.
    ... it's quite accepted and understood by the group.
    ... we have to ask more the web developers whether it's ok for
    current TD structure.
    ... for the constraint devices, serialization format and
    compression format were discussed in the group.
    ... EXI wg is also working on it for very constraint devices.

    daniel: what dave said is not only related to serialization but
    how to prescribe the features of JSON-LD for constraint
    devices.
    ... I would prefer to use what already exits in JSON-LD rather
    than starting from scratch again.
    ... creating another new abstract format is not acceptable

    sebastian: how to continue the discussion?
    ... Dave, would it be possible to involve more web developers
    in the discussion?

    dave: we are lack of channels to reach out web developers
    community. We maybe can more use the open source projects.
    ... some experiments are more research focus. We still need to
    attract more SMEs to the group.

    sebastian: after TD restructuring, for this more flexible,
    easier to use than the original version, we need to reach out
    the community to hear their feedbacks.

    dave: we could find more people who have experiences on it.

    kaz: we could reach out for W3C Members and non-Member
    communities more for comments on it, but the detail should be
    discussed and planned within not this TD Restructuring TF but
    the WoT Comm TF.

    yingying: we agreed in Beijing F2F meeting that the IG needs to
    be involved for implementation related issues as they could not
    be handled in communication TF as there are just few people in
    it.

    kaz: we could discuss whether it should be handled in
    communication TF in another place later.

    yingying: yes.

    sebastian: thanks a lot for gregg to call in so late in the
    night.
    ... it would be nice to contact gregg for anything related to
    JSON-LD.

Properties vs Actions

    [sebastian is going through the properties vs actions table]

    -> [15]https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/255 issue 255

      [15] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/255

    sebastian: we should rely on URI which is more flexible.
    ... what are you thinking about it?
    ... another approach is @id proposed by victor. However it's
    not so commonly used by web developers. I would recommend the
    URI.

    dave: do we need more terms what is the URI for? what is the
    relationship?
    ... to identify endpoint, URI is generic.

    victor: URI here is the identifier for the resource.
    ... maybe more precise term for it?

    dave: the scope and value for this URI?

    victor: endpoint is more related to service but now it's
    related to resource. More opinions on it?

    dave: I think URI is fine for that.

    [some discussions on the URI proposal]

    sebastian: I would close this issue.

Other issues

    -> [16]https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/254 issue 254

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/254

    sebastian: everybody agreed on it. My proposal is to move this
    issue to the discussion on lifecycle which is led by
    kajimoto-san.

    [sebastian summarized the benefits for having the template]

    sebastian: my suggestion is to close this issue.

    -> [17]https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/264 issue 264

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/264

    sebastian: please comment on this new issue.

    -> [18]https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/256 issue 256

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/256

    sebastian: could dave give some update on the compound
    properties issue?

    dave: would be useful to collect use cases on it.

    sebastian: could you also post your proposal on it?

    dave: I will dig it out on the github.

    -> [19]https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/263 issue 263

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/263

    sebastian: UI field proposed in TD. Please comment on it.
    ... these are all the issues. please continue working on it. I
    will send the status of the github issues to IG mailing group.
    ... extend the deadline for 1 week.
    ... next week we will have a review on what the new TD looks
    like.
    ... thank you.

    [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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Received on Wednesday, 26 October 2016 09:03:46 UTC