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[whatwg] framesets

From: Peter Brawley <pb@artfulsoftware.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:36:25 -0500
Message-ID: <4ACFC8F9.9040109@artfulsoftware.com>
Markus,

 > I think that the discussion if or not there may be a use case where 
framesets are "good" is not the point.

We agree there, and I'd go further: declaring a mechanism for hiding 
intrapage links "bad" is an overreach, to put it mildly.

 >So, if the people who discuss and define the HTML5 standard *do not 
like* framesets,
 >it is IMO reason enough for them to take them out of this standard.

There we disagree. A main W3C responsibility is to facilitate the web. 
Removing a feature /which is used because use cases require it/ is 
destructive to the web by diminishing support for a required feature.

PB

-----

Markus Ernst wrote:
> Peter Brawley schrieb:
>> Eduard,
>>
>>  >Everything that can be achieved with <frameset> can be done through
>>  ><table>+<iframe>.
>>
>> If that's so, someone ought to be able to point at some examples.
>>
> I think that the discussion if or not there may be a use case where 
> framesets are "good" is not the point.
>
>> Supposing that someone can produce examples, the argument for 
>> removing frames from HTML5 becomes: "frameset has been in HTML till 
>> now, /but is being removed because we do not like it/. If you insist 
>> on such use cases, re-architect them." That's a misuse of standards.
>
> This is rather the point. There might be a use case where dictatorship 
> is good - only a dictator might i.e. make laws to really protect the 
> environment, which would not be possible in a democracy. There might 
> even be a use case where chemical weapons are good - they might i.e. 
> serve to fight a rat plague somewhere in a third-world country. Still 
> we (well, I hope most of us) *do not like* dictatorship and chemical 
> weapons. This is reason enough to try to contribute to a world where 
> they are not wide-spread.
>
> So, if the people who discuss and define the HTML5 standard *do not 
> like* framesets, it is IMO reason enough for them to take them out of 
> this standard. This will, as stated already by several posters, not 
> prevent you from using a frameset to do something "good" with it, and 
> you will be as safe as you are now, as UAs will support legacy content 
> for the years to come.
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