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Re: Re: Re: We need a more UI-friendly group

From: abhimanyu0003 <abhimanyu@japanaddicts.org>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 04:32:27 -0800
To: PhistucK <phistuck@gmail.com>
Cc: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>, <noloader@gmail.com>, WebPlatform Public List <public-webplatform@w3.org>
Message-ID: <14a48c91e9a.12058d4c2111654.1355687331741676298@japanaddicts.org>
And I actually replied to this whole thread.


---- On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 04:20:11 -0800 PhistucK &lt;phistuck@gmail.com&gt; wrote ---- 

​(I was replying to Doug, I was actually justifying your reasoning for Facebook)​


On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:18 PM, abhimanyu0003 &lt;abhimanyu@japanaddicts.org&gt; wrote:Okay, I understand.


---- On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 00:23:08 -0800 PhistucK &lt;phistuck@gmail.com&gt; wrote ---- 

I think his main argument is the reach, which you cannot replicate with any other tool or method, I believe.


On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Doug Schepers &lt;schepers@w3.org&gt; wrote:Hi, Abhimanyu–
 I agree with you that we need a better way to organize, coordinate, and communicate. Email and IRC are fine for many of us, but I also know many (especially younger) people who prefer online social networks and forum-like interfaces.
 I think using Facebook, specifically, would likely to be a divisive approach, rather than a uniting one (as you've seen in many reactions here). Moreover, it doesn't have the kinds of tools needed for real online collaboration for working. You mention that we could have broader reach on Facebook, but the quality of contributions is just as important as the number of contributors, and you haven't made a strong case that the quality would be improved.
 I don't think it would be wise for us to invest energy and attention to something that is likely not to work well for our needs. So, I suggest we follow Amelia's advice to turn the conversation from Facebook to gathering ideas about use cases and requirements that would enable the kind of modern user experience that you'd like to see.
 What specific features of Facebook do you think would help us? You mentioned a few, but I think creating a comprehensive list would help a lot. Here are some of the things you mentioned:
 * online interface
 * persistent conversation threads/articles that "bubble up" to the top when new comments are added
 * notifications of new posts
 * notifications of personal mentions
 * real-time discussion
 * file-sharing
 * tracking member contributions
 When we first launched the site, we had a sort of forum interface, but we shelved it to concentrate on the documentation. But we do need something along those lines. There are a number of tools that could help us do so, without using Facebook.
 Amelia mentioned The Bug Genie, which is good as an issue tracker, but doesn't meet your other requirements, especially the social aspects.
 Renoir recently found a tool called Phabricator [1], which may meet some more of your requirements; we're thinking of testing that out in the new year.
 I appreciate your suggestions and enthusiasm. The most important way that contributors can help the project right now is by contributing content. If you have a topic that you're an expert in, and find our documentation lacking, please feel free to dig in and help improve the docs for that topic!
 [1] http://phabricator.org/
 Project Lead, WebPlatform.org
 On 12/13/14 10:21 PM, abhimanyu0003 wrote:

 I am not saying "Let's wrap up our business here and do our stuff on
 Facebook" so that a hypothetical "modern" teenager will find it more
 In terms of neutrality and the spirit of open, nothing beats IRC and
 emails, especially when you're not using Google and whatever but your
 custom email with a not-for-profit email client.
 There's no way I'm against communicating on these platforms or in favour
 of picking a proprietary platform which is heavily regulated, biased,
 makes a helltonne of money each second, and might infringe privacy. And
 cannot be indexed.
 What I'm saying is this: instead of a casual group that I can make out
 of interest for discussing WPD-related work, we collectively make a
 casual (and of course, unofficial) Facebook group and test for a month
 or so.
 That's my proposal. A lot of you might not be having a Facebook account.
 And no matter how easy to set up, Facebook is, well, a fancy and
 solely-for-profit internet service. Not even a service but an excuse to
 ignore the real world. But I've seen work accelerate like hell when an
 informal group, like a Facebook group, yes which is highly regulated,
 not open, and just too fancy, is used instead of other formal and more
 efficient services because of its increase in activation energy and
 reaction points (chemistry concepts).
   It will be solely informal. But if I create such a group, you can be
 sure that it'll die in a day. If we all collectively show (not fake)
 enthusiasm and crete a group for beta testing, then you'll see for
 yourself what I mean. Given that we get that many members.
 I don't want to end up again in how is Facebook&gt;emails or how
 emails&gt;Facebook. Emails are our best bet because we aim on communication
 and not how much PHP our communication has. Plus, emails are proven
 tools of stable discussion. No one knows when Facebook will shut down,
 crash, start charging money, spam our monitors with ads and whatever.
 I just want you all to try wholeheartedly just once.
 I also understand that most of us are not ready for a heads-on collision
 with a highly complicated and chaotic "social" entity with so much
 sophistication and entropy. But only if we stop being lazy, Facebook can
 seem lightweight, smooth, and we can be totally insulated from outside
 world too.
 [P.S. Talking of fancy communities, I think Google+ Communities, without
 any hangout crap, are much, much better than Facebook groups. Plus,
 everybody who has a GMail account already has a Google+ account. Google
 also seems less aggressive in forcing business down its users throats
 than Facebook. But my good experience is limited to a Facebook group.]

 ---- On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:21:17 -0800 *Jeffrey
 Walton&lt;noloader@gmail.com&gt;* wrote ----
      &gt;&gt; Well, all things you've mentioned can be counter-argued or
     criticised. So,
      &gt;&gt; kindly read along.
      &gt;&gt; Facebook archives will also be permanently available.
      &gt;&gt; ...
     Additionally, some folks don't participate in the social networking
     experiments. I would not want to join &lt;favorite network here&gt; to hunt
     down topics or comment on occasion.
     The social networking experiments don't have the best track record of
     honoring users privacy (if there is such a thing when you join). The
     best defense is to not join in the first place. Cf.,
     (and others).


Received on Sunday, 14 December 2014 12:32:55 UTC

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