W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > January 2019

Re: instant web payments via the lightning network

From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:44:07 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKaEYhJCWFduLuYzpKnG=DYFrcN8_RncMpc6_DBgLGEkaPSmTw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Michael Bumann <hello@michaelbumann.com>
Cc: Web Payments <public-webpayments@w3.org>
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 at 18:30, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 at 18:24, Michael Bumann <hello@michaelbumann.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> On Monday, January 14, 2019 11:50 AM, Melvin Carvalho <
>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 11:30, Michael Bumann <hello@michaelbumann.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Melvin,
>>>
>>> yeah, I've been experimenting with the Bitcoin lightning network for a
>>> while and I am pretty excited about the state and how easy it is to build
>>> on top of it.
>>>
>>
>> Hi, Great!
>>
>> Funnily enough I was just reading your page, and realized it was you :
>>
>> Tim did actually a while back ask me to interact with this group
>> regarding http 402.  Some work has been done on that, including by me, and
>> it would be great to compare notes at some point.  Or maybe flesh out use
>> cases.
>>
>>
>> I got a bit lost in the different efforts around this topic. And some
>> seemed to me rather complicated (e.g. including standards for providing
>> invoice/shipping details)
>>
>> I'd love to see and online equivalent of handing a coin to the newspaper
>> person and getting some content in return.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Did you see/use lightning browser extension "joule"[1]?  It brings
>>> lightning payments to the browser - and there has been some discussion
>>> around supporting web payment standards - maybe somebody familiar can help?
>>>
>>
>> I have it installed, but dont fully understand the fine details.  When my
>> casa node arrives I'll be able to try it out with my own node.  But I might
>> set up a raspblitz while I wait.
>>
>>
>> Let me know if you want to set it up on a server. I am happy to help,
>>
>>
>> I was lead to your blog post from :
>>
>> https://github.com/wbobeirne/joule-extension/issues/46
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I am wondering how to make it easier for content providers to integrate
>>> LN payments and also experimented with lightning payments for API requests
>>> [2].
>>>
>>
>> I have written in the past working code for pay walls, with a dance
>> around http 402, and in fact that's my current use case.
>>
>> Do you think some areas of this work flow would benefit from
>> standardization?
>>
>>
>> as mentioned above I am not super aware of the current standardization
>> efforts and I ignored it because of simplicity with my experiments.
>> I think also joule ignored it for that reason.
>>
>> But yeah this must use some standard. Does anyone know how this could fit
>> into the current efforts?
>>
>
> How about this simple pay wall user story for proof of concept?
>
> User Story <#m_8143054714546802283_user-story>
>
> As a teacher, Alice wishes to make her educational notes available to
> fellow teachers. Having put a great deal of effort into it, she would wish
> to get access to different notes from other teachers in return, or put up a
> pay wall for new teachers that have not yet prepared notes. Alice will set
> the price of access, and a license indicating it is not to be shared
> further. Bob, having obtained some credits on Alice's system purchases the
> notes, and starts working on his own presentations, which he would like to
> share in a similar way
>
>
> Process <#m_8143054714546802283_process>
> Bob's attempts to access the URI, and receives a response, HTTP 402 -
> Payment Required.
>
> Also returned is a lightning network invoice in an HTTP header.
>
> Bob pays the invoice, then Alice allows access to the article
>


Request

HTTP GET paywall.org/article.html

Response

HTP 402
X-Lightning-Invoice : ln74894yiy...
Updates-Via : wss://paywall.org

Maybe another header for the type of paywall?  ie lightning mainnet.  The
updates-via can be used to tell the user agent that the page is ready to
refresh.


>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> With solid it's possible to access control content, and give back a 4xx.
>> We dont yet return 402s but I've custom hacked a server to do that.  I'm
>> not quite sure how a server will be able to know to send a 402.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]https://lightningjoule.com/
>>> [2]
>>> http://michaelbumann.com/post/180389589277/bitcoin-lightning-machine-to-machine-api-payments
>>> [2] https://github.com/bumi/ln-markdown-to-pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>> On Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:04 PM, Melvin Carvalho <
>>> melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I am curious if any of this group is interested in the lightning
>>> network [1].
>>> >
>>> > For those that are unaware, it is a system built on top of block
>>> chains that allow zero cost instant payments in a zero trust environment.
>>> >
>>> > There has been lots of innovation already this year, and it seems to
>>> be growing fast.  One service that impressed me is a custodial service
>>> built on top of twitter that allows you to add a tip jar based on your
>>> twitter account.
>>> >
>>> > https://tippin.me/
>>> >
>>> > This is a really easy way for non technical people to experience web
>>> payments and bitcoin in the browser, without the overhead of a high
>>> technical barrier to entry, or downloading a wallet.
>>> >
>>> > Additionally I have added this to my sollid profile using the the foaf
>>> : tipjar predicate that has been around for about a decade but never really
>>> used.  The I have added it looks as follows :
>>> >
>>> > In turtle :
>>> >
>>> > </#me> <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/tipjar> <
>>> https://tippin.me/@melvincarvalho> .
>>> >
>>> > In RDFa :
>>> >
>>> > <a target="_blank" rel="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/tipjar" href="
>>> https://tippin.me/@melvincarvalho">https://tippin.me/@melvincarvalho</a>
>>> >
>>> > There are also new solutions such as a mobile wallet that receives
>>> payments (blue wallet), decentralized apps (Lapps) and ability to run your
>>> own node eg on a raspberry pi.
>>> >
>>> > If anyone is playing around in this space would love to hear from you,
>>> or if you'd like to get started and have, say a tippin me account, I'd be
>>> happy to send some satoshis (the unit of currency) to play around with.
>>> >
>>> > I think this brings forth an exciting new era of instant payments in
>>> the browser.  Would love to hear from anyone else that is interested in
>>> this tech.
>>> >
>>> > [1] http://lightning.network
>>>
>>
>>
Received on Saturday, 19 January 2019 17:44:42 UTC

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