Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted

RE: Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
"virtual currencies"

I like to clarify. Their status as currencies is in the eyes of the
(be)holders. Government analysts in both China and Finland (at least,
perhaps others more recently) have determined that these are virtual
commodities, and expressly NOT virtual currencies. This distinction is
important because very different laws come into play.

The term I prefer is: Bitcoin and XRP are "virtual tokens" (...although the
hype sometimes makes them seem more like "virtual totems").

Joseph Potvin


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brent Shambaugh
<brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>wrote:

> Here is what I am gathering:
>
> In the original Ripple, Money was an IOU. (1)
>
> When currency unit XRP was introduced, it prevented transaction and ledger
> spam and acted as a bridge currency. (2)
>
> If I can recall correctly, XRP was an attempted to solve problems with the
> former. Supposedly these problems are those mentioned for (2).
>
> Actually, Joseph Potvin reminded me of something. Bitcoin and XRP are
> "virtual currencies"
>
> I would be interested to know more about the free riders. Were they people
> in the network who were untrustworthy to transfer IOUs? Were they a reason
> for the creation of XRP?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brent
>
> (1) Ryan Fugger, Money as IOUs in Social Trust Networks & A Proposal for a
> Decentralized Currency Protocol, April 18th, 2004,
> http://archive.ripple-project.org/decentralizedcurrency.pdf
> (2) Ripple credits, Ripple Wiki, https://ripple.com/wiki/XRP
> (3)      Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Persons Administering,
> Exchanging, or Using Virtual Currencies,
> http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:
>
>> If anyone has questions about how Ripple works or what it brings to web
>> payments, I'd be more than happy to try to take a stab at answering them.
>>
>> The distinction between Ripple the network and Ripple the currency is
>> often quite confusing so I think it's most helpful to call the network
>> Ripple and the currency just XRP.
>>
>> Evan
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Reutzel, Bailey <
>> bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The first iteration of Ripple was conceived by Ryan Fugger in 2004 yes,
>>> but that was littered with free riders that never fulfilled their orders.
>>> So he started working on a way to mitigate this.
>>> But in my opinion Chris Larsen, a serial financial services disruptor
>>> whose company now controls Ripple, began to build it out and push it to the
>>> mainstream because he saw the attention Bitcoin was receiving. I think
>>> Larsen pushed this as a cryptocurrency to catch attention, because the
>>> platform itself is not really about cryptocurrency at all.
>>>
>>> Sorry I should have explained further.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jeffrey Cliff [mailto:jeffrey.cliff@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 12:53 PM
>>> To: Reutzel, Bailey
>>> Cc: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin; Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>> Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>>
>>> > Basically Ripple was created a math-based currency to try and catch
>>> > some of the hype.
>>>
>>> Not true.  Ripple predates bitcoin, and the hype that followed.
>>>
>>> On 04/02/2014, Reutzel, Bailey <bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com> wrote:
>>> > .. XRP is used as a way to eliminate fraud on the network.
>>> > Basically consumers using the Ripple platform must send a transaction
>>> > fee in XRP when they make a payment, even if they're sending U.S.
>>> > dollars to someone that only accepts Euros. Ripple finds that
>>> > intermediary to send the payment through... so a node that accepts US
>>> > dollars and will send the end party Euros.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Reutzel, Bailey [mailto:bailey.reutzel@sourcemedia.com]
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:48 AM
>>> > To: Brent Shambaugh; Joseph Potvin
>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>> > Subject: RE: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>> >
>>> > Yes they call the currency Ripple or XRP.
>>> >
>>> > From: Brent Shambaugh [mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 11:46 AM
>>> > To: Joseph Potvin
>>> > Cc: Manu Sporny; Web Payments CG
>>> > Subject: Re: Web Payments Workshop position paper submitted
>>> >
>>> > Is Ripple really a currency? I thought XRP was.
>>> >
>>> > https://ripple.com/currency/
>>> > I just performed a Google search. Perhaps some clarification here?
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Joseph Potvin
>>> > <jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>> wrote:
>>> > Just noticed... the phrase "open, patent and royalty-free standard"
>>> > snuck back in. It should be "through open methods, unencumbered by
>>> > patents or royalties"
>>> > (this phrasing allows for defensive patents)
>>> >
>>> > joseph
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Manu Sporny
>>> > <msporny@digitalbazaar.com<mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>> wrote:
>>> > The Web Payments Workshop position paper has been submitted. The copy
>>> > that was submitted is attached. A rough HTML version of the document
>>> > is available here:
>>> >
>>> > https://web-payments.org/papers/2014/WebPaymentsWorkshopPositionPaper/
>>> >
>>> > If there are errors or omissions, we have a week to correct them.
>>> >
>>> > -- manu
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>> > Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>> > blog: The Worlds First Web Payments Workshop
>>> > http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Joseph Potvin
>>> > Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations The Opman Company |
>>> > La compagnie Opman
>>> > http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
>>> > jpotvin@opman.ca<mailto:jpotvin@opman.ca>
>>> > Mobile: 819-593-5983<tel:819-593-5983> LinkedIn (Google short URL):
>>> > http://goo.gl/Ssp56
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>> > confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any
>>> forum and add 1 to the generation
>>>
>>> "This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is
>>> confidential and not for third party unauthorized distribution"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Evan Schwartz
>> Developer + Technology Pioneer
>> Ripple Labs Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio
jpotvin@opman.ca
Mobile: 819-593-5983
LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56