Re: From W3C's eCommerce Interest Group of the 1990s to Today's Web Payments Discussion

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 13:15:25 +0200, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:

> Further to the wrap-up discussion about the creating on an Interest Group
> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/minutes/2014-03-25-wrapup/
>
> Does anyone on these lists have the "two-decades view" of W3C
> involvement with this topic?

On W3C involvement in this topic I only started looking about 16 years  
ago, but…

> http://www.w3.org/ECommerce/
> http://www.w3.org/TR/EC-related-activities
> http://www.w3.org/ECommerce/Micropayments/
> http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-jepi
>
> Three questions:
>
> 1. What happened to those original efforts towards a W3C Specification
> on eCommerce that would have included specifications on web payments?

Nothing - they died. Essentially no broad-based support existed, just a  
technical document describing a couple of things people were doing at the  
time. Real "e-commerce", meanwhile, was simply done by the much more  
simplistic process of handing credit card numbers around.

> 2. What should we learn from substance and fate of those earlier efforts?

That it is important to build a workable consensus among a sufficiently  
large base to support a rational belief that this is going somewhere, and  
that it is important to watch and respond to actual implementation. (This  
is a lesson W3C itself had to learn over that time, which it largely has).

> 3. Is there a need to "start" a new IG?  Or might the W3C eCommerce IG
> just re-convene, update its charter, and carry on?

There isn't much difference in practice. Although I am not a fan of the  
"eCommerce" name.

The main difference I see in this case between an IG and a CG is that W3C  
assigns more resources (both technical and human) to an IG. (The other  
difference is the defined requiremnt for a fair process - which is  
something the CG has already adopted).

I'd also like to address some of Anders' and Steven's apprehension about  
doing things at W3C.

W3C is indeed often best at low-level technical work, but it has also  
demonstrated real ability to handle areas like accessibility which have  
serious policy implications and other complicating factors. It by no means  
has a perfect track record, and it is important to hold them to a  
reasonable standard through scrutiny and calling out egregious failings.

It is subject to the same pressures as the real world - large players have  
disproportionate power, since they can for example implement something  
different and undercut the good work done by a broad coalition in  
developing a consensus. However the same is true of the real world.

My own judgement is that W3C generally provides a reasonable platform for  
the discussion allowing smaller players to genuinely be heard. As with  
anything, the people who make things happen generally have more power than  
those who just watch and comment on what happens, but W3C makes a serious  
effort to ensure those whose resources give them massive leverage here  
don't simply ride roughshod

(I note Steven's specific complaint regarding HTML but point out that most  
"bleeding edge" HTML *is* javascript-based and developed by professionals.  
The Working Group did also take note that it is important to provide an  
explanation of HTML as a markup language, and a W3C Staff Member took the  
initiative to produce clear documentation of the Markup Language, which  
led to the Working group taking on the task formally. I also think the  
often intense politics that led to the HTML WG and which go back over a  
decade account for some of its atypical nature).

cheers

Chaals

> Joseph Potvin
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Stephane Boyera <boyera@w3.org> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Thanks to the great help from the Web Payments Community Group and Manu
>> Sporny, we just published a new cleaned version of the minutes of the
>> workshop at
>> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/minutes/
>> The agenda with links to slides and presentations is available at
>> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/agenda
>>
>> We are planning to circulate a draft report for your comments in the  
>> next 10
>> days.
>>
>> Best
>> Stephane
>> --
>> Stephane Boyera        stephane@w3.org
>> W3C                +33 (0) 6 73 84 87 27
>> BP 93
>> F-06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
>> France
>>
>


-- 
Charles McCathie Nevile - Consultant (web standards) CTO Office, Yandex
       chaals@yandex-team.ru         Find more at http://yandex.com

Received on Tuesday, 8 April 2014 12:21:30 UTC