[use cases] Meeting minutes for 2015-02-24 telecon

The minutes for today's Web Payments IG use Cases Task Force telecon can
be found here:

http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-wpay-minutes.html

Full text of the meeting follows:
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Web Payments IG Use Cases Task Force
24 Feb 2015

Present: Erik, Pat, David_Ezell, Pat_Adler, Ian, Katie, Jean-Yves,
         Chaals, David_Raggett, Evert, Manu
Chair: David_Ezell
Scribe: Manu

Topics
1. Proposal for ongoing minutes management
2. Review group goals
3. Work Review
4. Payment Agent
5. Security
6. Communications Strategy
7. Any Other Business

dezell: We have a new streamlined agenda.

<scribe> Agenda:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0049.html
dezell: Any changes to the agenda?

No changes

Proposal for ongoing minutes management

dezell: Any questions about proposal as proposed?

<Ian> +1 to the proposal for managing minutes
dezell: Any objections on adopting it?

manu: +1 to proposal for managing minutes

RESOLUTION: Accept new minutes management proposal located here:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0023.html

Review group goals

dezell: Any updates on this?

chaals: in process - working on it now.

dezell: This is what we discussed in Utrecht?

chaals: yes, there is a need to clarify some of the points, obviously,
but I'll send a cleaner email out... it's straight-forward stuff.
... And it's only aspirational - this is what we want to achieve.

<inserted> Chaals first draft of 'what we are aiming for'
dezell: Two any other business topics - face-to-face and telecon
times... waiting until then to discuss.

Work Review

dezell: Lots of pointers any updates, Manu?

<Ian> scribenick: Ian
manu: I feel like we are making good progress.
... we have good feedback from Laurent; Ian is looking at template;
overall we are making progress
... only concern I have is we need to iterate quickly over template.
... We are also attempting to put the glossary in one place and be able
to import it into the use cases...that work is ongoing
... there's a lot of work to be done, but iterations happening rapidly.
... my proposal is to have the templates nailed down, figure out what to
do with examples, then decide when to get to FPWD

dezell: Any time frame for finishing the template

manu: by next week.
... Ian and I are speaking today

IJ: I would ask for next week.

manu: Once that happens, it's a matter of crunching through the use
cases to make them fit
... at the use cases telconf next week

<manu> scribenick: manu
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to restate where the requirements went
dezell: Just to be clear - just because we've removed requirements for
now, and put in preconditions/postconditions, that doesn't mean that
requirements will be gone forever.
... Requirements are soft unless you have glossary figured out.

Ian: There are a bunch of actions listed in the agenda items - wonder if
we think any of those can be closed?

<Ian> manu: I don't think many can be closed right now
manu: I can respond to the mailing list and recommend closing them.

dezell: If you click on Use Case task force - you can see all in order.

manu: Don't want to spend telecon time closing them - we can do via email.

dezell: Any pending questions from the use cases task force?

manu: Not yet - we need to figure out the use cases template.

<Ian> [IJ: Suggest people reply to action status by email to speed
things up[
manu: I propose that we go with what the use cases task force template
for FPWD... if people have objections that's fine, we should still
publish unless they are very strong objections.

dezell: Is it okay if we can integrate this glossary conversation with
use cases, Evert?

evert: That's fine, I've been adding graphics/images to glossary.

<evert> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Context
evert: At this point in time - these are drawings and economic
transaction steps that we've discussed. Basic plan is to write a
narrative around that. What are elements in a payment? They should be
neutral to use cases, just describe the roles.
... Then we can see if roles/objects make sense.
... So glossary is a set of definitions - context part should give a
generic feel on steps/roles.

<Ian> manu: Re glossary, ok to work in the wiki for now, but we will
need to move it to an HTML doc and import the terms into the use cases
doc and other places as well (shared glossary)
<Ian> ...and a mechanical question of how we integrate into the tools we
are using.
<Ian> ack [IPcaller]
<Zakim> [IPcaller], you wanted to discuss integration with use cases.
evert: not sure how the process should work.

<Ian> manu: All you'll need to do is ensure the html doc is up-to-date,
and we'll import.
dezell: Evert, Are you going to be able to be on the call on Thursday?
... Can we defer this to that meeting?

evert: I will be able to be on that call.

<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about combined meeting
chaals: One of the reasons of having a glossary is to understand what
we're writing - we should be using terms consistently, but where
possible, to identify terms that we should replace w/ actual english
that people should understand.
... In that sense - the glossary is tool for understanding if we're
communicating correctly w/ the outside world.

<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say glossary is as much a tool as a
publication… the goal is to minimise it in the end.
chaals: It's a useful discipline to try and help people understand what
our work is about.

<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to comment on the magnified importance of the
glossary for this IG
dezell: The glossary in our case is more important in our case that most
other W3C WGs. W3C membership can't really come back and criticize our
terminology, but as we expose the work to the outside world - it's
really important that we get it right.
... Anything else to say about use cases / glossary?

Payment Agent

dezell: Any updates?

padler: I just want to bring up - Joerg has been out, trying to refine
diagrams.
... As I was reviewing the use cases - there was some indication in use
cases - user would select payment agent.
... You would select a payment agent associated w/ particular payment type.
... The payment agent might contain multiple payment instruments.
... So, don't want to go into details - but there is some misalignment
here and we need to discuss.
... We need to clean up expectations around that area.

dezell: There is a harmonization issue?

padler: Don't know if it's harmonization or if there is an issue w/
clarifying stuff - divergence could be a bad thing here.

Laurent: I sent something out to the mailing list to discuss - there may
be multiple payment instruments per payment agent, multiple payment
agents per device.

<padler> +1
Laurent_: I don't know if it's best to do it in use case task force or
payment agent task force.

padler: Yeah, it's in the middle of payment agent and use cases.
... You could have multiple browsers - each running a payment agent -
there are some concepts - the wallet encapsulates multiple payment agents.

Laurent_: I think we need to focus on what the payment agent has to be.

<Ian> [IJ Thinks people should start to write down their views so we can
read and compare]
<padler> +1
<Ian> +1 to Laurent's comment that people write down what they have in mind
Laurent_: Give a bit of perspective on what people mean when they say
"payment agent".

<Zakim> Manu, you wanted to mention that this is a problem.
<Laurent_> +1 to have discussion in use case task force
<Ian> manu: I think people who will be talking about this stuff will be
in both groups
<padler> +1 to the description of multiple payment instruments per
payment agent and multiple payment agents per device...
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about an action for coordination
dezell: Per Ians comment - there is a coordination need between both
task forces. Let's take this to email
... We had a coordination meeting on Monday - we need clear goals. One
thing that's clear to us is that the use cases are the thing that drives
the other documents. We need to make sure these concepts are ensconced
properly in the use cases document.
... Let's try to coordinate as best we can.
... Any other payment agent discussion?
... One more thing about Payment Agent - Pascal - Laurents compatriot -
joined us for a non-task force meeting. Pascal is going to be involved
in that work. Laurent, you might make sure he signs up to the task force.

Security

Laurent: Life has got in the way - need volunteers.

manu: I can volunteer to provide feedback... can't do more calls.

padler: I think there are a couple of people as US Fed that may be a
good fit for that group.
... Stay tuned, will try to get folks.

dezell: There are several possible missions for this task force -
identify requirements related to security. The other role for this Task
Force is in trying to keep finger on pulse of what's going on out there.
... We are more or less in sync w/ that. We should talk about that
whenever you organize the call.

Communications Strategy

<Ian> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Communications_Strategy_Task_Force
Ian: I've pasted into IRC a wiki where we've started to do work.
... I don't think we're done w/ the action item - need another week -
haven't made a more formal announcement, wanted a more solid proposal in
place.
... Going to talk about timeline in a second - some notes about messages.
... People need to go around and talk about this work - we need a shared
view for that to happen.

<Ian> ----
<Ian> Drive payments industry acceptance of the the value of the Open
Web Platform for achieving some of their goals for ubiquity, security,
and usability, as expressed in the use cases developed by industry
representatives.
<Ian> Help the group create deliverables that are understandable and
useful to both payments industry specialists and the Web community at W3C.
<Ian> ---
Ian: This is the direction we're going in - still lots of work to do.
One thing is that we've identified goals - we should socialize those.

<padler> +10 to Ian for all the effort on this front!!
manu: +10 as well!

Ian: The outcome of this group - you should be able to go to security
group, have constructive conversations w/ them, or to ISO and have a
conversation w/ them. Those are our communications goals. Comments on
all of this are very welcome.
... So, end results will be focused on how to speak at conferences and
to the media. We also want to discuss timeline.
... What are we doing and when are we doing it?
... We want to socialize this - see if we can achieve it.
... We can't take it seriously until we dive down into the details.
Timeline mixes a number of things - calendar for deliverables, along w/
communications.
... I'm going to filter it out for you here -
... Idea is first draft of use cases are March 18th
... Use cases task force needs to figure out if that is a realistic date
and what to we need to get there?
... Second use cases published about a month later - maybe before
Payments 2015.

<padler> * padler suggests using both... maybe multilple times...
Ian: In May - we would have W3C's Advisory Committee meeting in paris -
let's get competing visions on paper - iron out the differences, maybe
there.
... In June - solid first draft of payment agent architecture document.
use cases are gelling - architecture is being circulated.
... By august - everyone is on vacation... :P
... By september, we have a roadmap document together - articulated
requirements based on draft architecture - W3C please get this work
done, or make other groups get the work done.

manu: I think the timeline is great - very aggressive, but clear.

<Laurent_> definitely ambitious :)
manu: This timeline is great - thank you Ian.

dezell: I'm in awe of having someone that can put together a clear
message, thank you Ian.

Ian: Looking forward to work with Pat on this - some of these things are
under way - had some chats w/ other folks in payments industry wrt.
interviews. Capital One and Tyfone are saying they need web payments, we
have an interview wrt. that.
... I need to do planning - what does it take to do FPWD drafts... All
Task Force leads - I need to work with you on planning to make this
proposal real.
... I'm trying to get up to speed - this is all just structure - what's
really going on here - it's slow going - reading a lot - thanks to
everyone that's pointing me to thing to read. I'll stumble a bit on
messaging. Because I'm such a newbie - looking at use cases is important
- I still don't get use cases because I'm not deeply embedded in the
industry.
... I have the advantage of being ignorant about details of the
industry, so that'll help us make this output digestable.

<chaals> [apologies, standing conflict…]
<chaals> [chaals leaves]
dezell: Yes, great work Ian - much appreciated - how do we move as
quickly as possible.

Ian: We've had some good luck with stories we've published about the
work lately.

<Ian> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Relevant_Conferences_for_the_IG
Ian: We have a few large companies that said that they'd like to get
involved in the work as a result, so that's always good to see.
... Those are all the conferences coming up - make a note of it - if
you're speaking, make a note of it there.
... It helps us to know when people are speaking - we can reuse their
slides, hook into their message, etc.

<padler> *may the force be with us... :)
dezell: Any last questions for the communications task force?

Any Other Business

<dezell> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73816/wpaytelco/results
dezell: From this poll, the best time for this group is Wednesday at
11:30am ET. It's a bit late for Europe, of all the entries, it has the
fewest "Don't want"s.
... So, that's the new telecon time - any violent opposition to this?
The new meeting time will take effect next Wednesday.

<dezell> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73816/wpay201506/results
dezell: Next up - answer this questionnaire...

<Laurent_> is it possible to get invites for the calls?
<Ian> RESOLUTION: Weekly meeting is now 11:30am ET on Wednesdays,
starting 3 March
manu: Laurent - you should be getting invites.

<Ian> (Agenda is invite)
<Ian> (If you want ics, please ask the chair :)
dezell: The preliminary date seems like June 16th-18th at Bloomberg offices.

Ian: please complete questionnaire - you have until close of day Sunday
to fill out this poll - please do so.

<padler> -padler
Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

-- manu

-- 
Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
blog: High-Stakes Credentials and Web Login
http://manu.sporny.org/2014/identity-credentials/

Received on Tuesday, 24 February 2015 19:48:41 UTC