Re: What is a WebID?

pá 10. 11. 2023 v 2:27 odesílatel Sebastian Hellmann <
hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> napsal:

> Ok, I think, this would be a good way ahead and it seems to be
> compatible with publishing Linked Data more in a REST like manner. It
> also could potentially remove the awkwardness of formats, content
> negotiation, the # vs / and also CBD and the necessity to aggregate
> small graphs with '/' uris  . It might have a lot of potential to
> simplify LD as a whole.
>
> The main trick here is to use any URL, then make it so that you can
> retrieve graph data (embedded or standalone), then add # to disambiguate
> entities within that graph.
>
> I have amendments:
>
> 1. we really should go for HTTPS URLs here. We can add a note that HTTP
> URIs are the more general case, however, these are not meant here in a
> goal-oriented manner. Ultimately, we can not securely authenticate a
> WebID using HTTP, plus I can not think of a case where it would be
> useful to have a URI that is not an URL.
>
> 2. I wouldn't be strict about the # and the Agent (for legacy reasons,
> i.e. LD published as '/'). I think, it can be either:
>
> a) example.org/agent5 a Agent . example.org/agent5#doc a ProfileDoc
>
> b) example.org/agent5#agent a Agent . example.org/agent5 a ProfileDoc
>
> c) example.org/agent5#agent a Agent . example.org/agent5#doc a ProfileDoc
>
> b and c would be clearer.
>
> 3. Non-information resources can resolve directly with 200 using #
> entities. This would integrate well in REST APIs.  I can see cases where
> you would want 303., so it should be acceptable to do content negotiation.
>
> 4. I am getting more an more skeptical about the "URI as names for
> things". Was this really the best way of realizing the GGG? Would it
> make a significant difference to say that "URLs as a tool to retrieve
> graph nodes and graphs that describe entities"?  It would be more in
> line with the Web, that also delivers docs about entities. Semantically,
> most people think about data retrieval first and then interpret them as
> entities later.
>
> 5. Using
>
> https://www.openlinksw.com/data/pdf/Semantic_Web_and_LLM-based_Chat_Bot_Symbiosis.pdf#page=26
> it would be possible to make a CSV/TSV subset spec.
>
> 6. Might be good to suggest some default strings to use after # , just
> as a no-brainer suggestion for implementation, so people don't struggle
> choosing between #me, #i, #this, etc. #organisation, #person, #agent,
> #website.
>

A Note on default # strings could be an excellent idea.

I've crawled a lot of these in my time and most are "#me", the exception is
TimBL who uses "#i" and I think a couple of people copied him, but vast
majority is "#me"

Then there is "#this" which is a kind of bridge, that could be discussed in
a note

The tricky thing is that sometimes you'll add "#this" when it's not there,
but other times you should not add "#this" when it's not there.  Those
cases could be written out in a document to clean up a log of confusion.
With more casual web developers using "#me" and the processor will
correctly infer what's going on.


>
> -- Sebastian
>
>
> On 11/9/23 19:25, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> >
> > On 11/9/23 10:47 AM, Sebastian Hellmann wrote:
> >> Hi Kingsley,
> >>
> >> do we actually still need to think in terms of documents. What if we
> >> removed the documents from the equation? URIs denote entities.
> >
> >
> > Exactly!
> >
> > URIs denote entities, and if you use an HTTP URI to denote an entity
> > it becomes a name.
> >
> > There's a subtly that's often overlooked across the the following
> > terms that's generally overlooked:
> >
> > 1. Denote -- act of denotation (signification) using a sign
> >
> > 2. Connote -- act of connotation i.e, descriptive representation
> >
> > 3. Name -- denotation -> connotation by way of indirection (however
> > that's achieved in a given medium)
> >
> > In the hypermedia medium of the Web, an HTTP URI is a powerful naming
> > mechanism that only costs tacking on a "#" fragment identifier to a URL.
> >
> >
> >> When you resolve them you should get a representation of the
> >> requested partition/entity.  What does the detour over the
> >> document/URL/address actually add?  Provenance could be added to the
> >> delivered representation. Versioning info is mostly not existent.
> >>
> >> I see the necessity for the WWW, but not for the GGG.
> >
> >
> > The magic of "#" extends to Giant Global Entity relationship Graph
> > comprising entities, entity types, and entity relationship types.
> >
> > Adding "#" to a URL costs zilch, while unleashing immense benefits.
> >
> > BTW -- the big boys have already figured this out and are already
> > using it when publishing structured data islands (enhanced metadata)
> > in their HTML docs, despite being motivated by SSEO and the E-A-T it
> > facilitates.
> >
> > Examples of docs comprising WebIDs constructed using "#" based
> > fragment identifier:
> >
> > 1.
> >
> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/11/02/new-study-validates-the-business-value-and-opportunity-of-ai/
> >
> > 2.
> >
> https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/11/new-iphone-photography-exhibition-debuts-in-paris-on-november-10/
> >
> > In addition, it is important to note that "#" usage goes hand-in-hand
> > with relative URLs which are now an integral part of JSON-LD 1.1.
> >
> > A WebID as an HTTP URI that names Agents is something that's already
> > happening en masse.
> >
> > All that's left is authentication usage i.e., beyond WebID-TLS which
> > is already happening to e.g., Solid (via solid-auth library for JS)
> > which offers WebID+OpenIDConnect+OAuth implementation which we've long
> > supported in our products.
> >
> > Kingsley
> >
> >
> >>
> >> -- Sebastian
> >>
> >> On 11/9/23 15:16, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 11/9/23 8:57 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> >>>> FWIW: when we defined WebID at TPAC, TimBL explicitly said no 303s.
> >>>
> >>> Because he knows what he is talking about, since he designed the
> >>> components that lead to the World Wide Web.
> >>>
> >>> An HTTP URI that names an Agent unambiguously simply needs a "#"
> >>> tacked on to it.
> >>>
> >>> You make the URI (pointer) from the Profile Doc URL (address).
> >>>
> >>> As I keep on trying to explain to you, right now the Web is full of
> >>> WebIDs that resolve to WebID-Profile documents using this importance
> >>> piece of Web magic.
> >>>
> >>> The whole thing "just works" and it's happening without or without a
> >>> WebID spec from anyone.
> >>>
> >>> ChatGPT and similar tools already understand this stuff too, so whom
> >>> exactly is some alternative spec going to bring on board?
> >>>
> >
>
>