Draft minutes: 9 August 2011

The draft minutes from the August 8 voice conference are available at 
the following and copied below:

http://www.w3.org/2011/08/09-webevents-minutes.html

Given the critical people were not on the call, the meeting ended 
without discussing the topics in the draft agenda.

If there is a call on August 16 and/or August 23, Doug will create the 
agenda and chair the meeting.

-AB

[1]W3C

[1] http://www.w3.org/

- DRAFT -

Web Events WG Voice Conference

09 Aug 2011

[2]Agenda

[2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0020.html

See also: [3]IRC log

[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/08/09-webevents-irc

Attendees

Present
Art_Barstow, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, Dzung_Tran,
Doug_Schepers, Cathy_Chan, Sangwhan_Moon

Regrets
Chair
Art

Scribe
Art

Contents

* [4]Topics
1. [5]Tweak Agenda
2. [6]Announcements
3. [7]Issue-19: Align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit
4. [8]Issue-16: Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re
Object Identity
5. [9]Examples of lists
6. [10]Preparing Touch Events v1 spec for Last Call WD
7. [11]Any Other Business (AOB)
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________

<smaug> is there some voip number or such to which I could call
using skype?

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Date: 9 August 2011

Tweak Agenda

AB: draft agenda posted on August 8
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/
0020.html. One change I want to make is to move the Examples List
topic after Issue-16.
... any change requests?

[13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0020.html.

[ None ]

Announcements

AB: any short announcements today?

Issue-19: Align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit

AB: Issue-19 [14]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19
has open Action-55 for Laszlo
[15]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/55
... Laszlo is still unavailable so we will skip this topic
... I think we should address this before LC

[14] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19
[15] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/55

MB: after our last call, I commented on the webkit bug

… re some alignment

… I haven't received any feedback on what I added to that webkit bug

AB: thanks for following up on that

<mbrubeck> [16]https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60612

[16] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60612

Issue-16: Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re Object Identity

AB: Issue-16 [17]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16
has open Action-53 by Doug
[18]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/53. Sangwhan
submitted some comments on August 3
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/
0015.html
... June 14 is the last time we discussed this issue
[20]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item04

[17] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16
[18] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/53.
[19] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0015.html
[20] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-webevents-minutes.html#item04

DS: no progress on that action

… plan to work on it this week

AB: this is somewhat related to the question about the list
definitions for Target Events

DS: would it be useful to try to do web searches on this issue?

MB: yes, I've been using Google Code searches

… it covers a lot of OSS code

… but only covers code in public repos and doesn't cover everything
on the Web

AB: do you need anything from the rest of use Doug re this issue?

DS: no; just need to do the analysis

MB: I disagree with Sangwhan's latest message

… I think the assert in example 2 of Issue-16 should fail

… I will respond on the list

… If they are all immutable the question of shared identity doesn't
matter so much

AB: yes, please do that

DT: have we looked at the Webkit impl?

DS: I think someone took an action

<mbrubeck>
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/
0121.html

[21] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0121.html

MB: laszlo has open action-46

action-46?

<trackbot> ACTION-46 -- Laszlo Gombos to laszlo to follow-up re
Object Identity implementation in WebKit -- due 2011-05-17 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/46

[22] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/46

<shepazu>
[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/
0121.html

[23] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0121.html

AB: so it appears then that Laszlo agrees with Matt re the 2nd
example

DS: I agree with Matt

… thus there is no need for me to respond

… if Matt responds to Sangwhan, I think that will clarify things

AB: you propose Doug that action-53 be close?

DS: yes, I think we've now addressed the issue

CC: do any changes need to be made to the spec to clarify this?

DS: yes; good point

… need a different action for it though

AB: what's the action

<scribe> ACTION: Doug propose spec text to address the resolution of
issue-16 [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/09-webevents-minutes.html#action01]

DS: I'll do that after Sangwhan has responded to Matt

Examples of lists

AB: Sangwhan checked in some examples to complete Action-57
[25]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/touchevents.htm
l
... Cathy's sent comments re Sangwhan's examples:
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/
0018.html
... Tran sent an example to the list
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/
0019.html

[25] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/touchevents.html
[26] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0018.html
[27] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0019.html

CC: I reviewed SM's examples

<trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Propose spec text to address the
resolution of issue-16 [on Doug Schepers - due 2011-08-16].

… it raised the question about what targetTouches actually refers to

… There appears to be a discrepancy in the spec and the example

MB: I agree with Cathy's interpretation of the spec

… and I need to test the examples in running code to verify

CC: I looked at Safari doc

… it is a bit ambiguous

… I'll look for a link

<Cathy>
[28]http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/UserExp
erience/Reference/TouchEventClassReference/TouchEvent/TouchEvent.htm
l

[28] 
http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/UserExperience/Reference/TouchEventClassReference/TouchEvent/TouchEvent.html

CC: it says targetTouches "A collection of Touch objects
representing all touches associated with this target.

"

MB: I can take an action to test the examples

AB: thanks Matt

<scribe> ACTION: brubeck test Sangwhan's list examples against
implementations [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/09-webevents-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Test Sangwhan's list examples against
implementations [on Matt Brubeck - due 2011-08-16].

AB: Cathy also noted there is no way to determine how many touch
points are currently on a particular element

CC: yes; is that an issue?
... so app needs to keep track?

MB: yes

<mbrubeck> using touchenter and touchleave (once those are
implemented)

OP: you can also use coordinates from the touch point element

<smaug>
[30]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom-view/#dom-document-elementfrompoin
t

[30] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom-view/#dom-document-elementfrompoint

SM: we may want to add some heuristics

… about number of touches

… it can be a problem in the long run

MB: the main reason behind the current language is to align with
Webkit

… if we want to change that, we need to be careful

SM: we can also think about adding new things in the next version of
the spec

AB: I think our working assumption is for v1 to match what has
already been implemented
... Tran submitted an example

TD: I tried my example on Safari and phone with Webkit

… it's up to the group if we want to do anything with my example

… want to add some additional features like rotation

SM: like to have other features included

… but would be good to make it a bit shorter

… and just focus on the minimal amount of code

TD: it's fine with me if the Editors want to change it

SM: OK; I'll make some mods and then run them by you

TD: ok; sounds good

… do we want to introduce a Rotation example?

MB: I have some comments that I will send to the list

SM: the v1 spec doesn't have rotation, correct?

MB: yes, that's correct

Preparing Touch Events v1 spec for Last Call WD

AB: one action blocking LC is Doug's Action-56 "Update the Touch
Event spec to use markup to facilitate

test case extraction"
[31]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/56

[31] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/56

DS: my f2f meeting and other high priority stuff got in the way

… should be done this week

… would appreciate it if Matt would ping me about this ;-)!

<smaug> we can all kick shepazu :)

DS: this shouldn't stop us from creating tests, right

AB: yes; good point!

… there is always an Open Action for everyone to Create Tests!

DS: after I complete action-56, it would be good to assign blocks of
assertions to individuals

… does that seem reasonable?

DT: think it's a good idea

<smaug> +1

<sangwhan> +1

DS: v1 will be limited to features already implemented

… does it appear there will be at least 2 impls for each feature?

MB: I think the main interop issue is going to be the params for
initTouchEvent

… Issue-19

… Other than that, I think all of the other v1 features are
interoperable

DS: I ask, because that will block our progress toward
Recommendation

AB: perhaps during LC review period we can do some analysis about
what has been implemented

DS: we could conceivably skip CR if we have all features implemented
in the LC time frame

… assuming we have the tests in place

AB: want to spend some time on the spec's 2 "red block issues"

… first one has to do with aligning with InkML

<Cathy>
[32]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/touchevents.htm
l#attributes

[32] 
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/default/touchevents.html#attributes

AB: have we already said this is out of scope for v1?

DS: yes

SM: yes

AB: so this will be resolved when we make the spec split?

DS: yes

AB: ok, the 2nd red block issue is "What are units of radiusX/Y? CSS
Pixels?

SM: that is also moved to v2

DS: correct

CC: yes

MB: the spec actually seems to address it, right above the issue

DS: I had an answer at one point of time but wanted more feedback

AB: so radiusX will not be in v1?

DS: yes, that's correct

MB: yes
... speaking of v1

… I am all set to make the split

… was waiting for Doug

… but won't now

… I will create a v1 branch

… and the trunk will continue on for v2

… and we can apply changes to both branches as needed

SM: sounds good

AB: +1

DS: so we can split now and still apply a changeset to both?

MB: yes, we can do that

… some of the patches may need to be done manually

… I don't expect the two branches to ever reunite

… v1 will stop changing as the spec freezes

SM: for v1, we should do some testing before stripping out features

DS: that implies we have the tests

… but we aren't quite there yet

… until we get the tests

… it's a good idea and will be done during the implementation phase

Any Other Business (AOB)

AB: August 30 is the next time I can make a call

DS: if we get enough actions and work done before then, I can chair
a call

AB: that works for me

<sangwhan> WFM

AB: meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: brubeck test Sangwhan's list examples against
implementations [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/09-webevents-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug propose spec text to address the resolution of
issue-16 [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2011/08/09-webevents-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 9 August 2011 16:20:17 UTC