W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webappsec@w3.org > February 2016

Re: new meta tags to protect code visibility or immuatbility

From: Mitar <mmitar@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:27:11 -0800
Message-ID: <CAKLmikOm8TDy0nVcU02S_kZ+on7t5UYaMiaCY1DGA_=bCoQJVQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Crispin Cowan <crispin@microsoft.com>
Cc: Mike West <mkwst@google.com>, Daniel Veditz <dveditz@mozilla.com>, Brad Hill <hillbrad@gmail.com>, Craig Francis <craig.francis@gmail.com>, Ahmed Saleh <ahmedzs@live.ca>, "public-webappsec@w3.org" <public-webappsec@w3.org>
Hi!

Crispin, because (citing Brad):

https://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#priority-of-constituencies

"In case of conflict, consider users over authors over implementors
over specifiers over theoretical purity. In other words costs or
difficulties to the user should be given more weight than costs to
authors; which in turn should be given more weight than costs to
implementors; which should be given more weight than costs to authors
of the spec itself, which should be given more weight than those
proposing changes for theoretical reasons alone. Of course, it is
preferred to make things better for multiple constituencies at once."

The right of users to be in control of their browsing experience and
their own computer outweighs the desire of authors to control what
users can see and how they can interact with it.  This protects
important rights, for example, the ability of a blind user to use a
screen reader, or the right to automatically translate content, or
just do silly stuff like
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xkcd-substitutions/jkgogmboalmaijfgfhfepckdgjeopfhk?hl=en
to experience the web the way they want to.


Mitar

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Crispin Cowan <crispin@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Mike, I am curious why Chrome chose to do that. Some site goes to a lot of
> work to implement CSP to defend itself against XSS. Then some inept ISV
> ships an extension that overrides CSP and makes the site vulnerable, users
> get hacked, and very large amounts of damage can follow e.g. drain a bank
> account.
>
>
>
> Why would we prioritize an extension’s desires over a web site’s CSP
> policies?
>
>
>
> From: Mike West [mailto:mkwst@google.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:17 AM
> To: Daniel Veditz <dveditz@mozilla.com>
> Cc: Mitar <mmitar@gmail.com>; Brad Hill <hillbrad@gmail.com>; Craig Francis
> <craig.francis@gmail.com>; Ahmed Saleh <ahmedzs@live.ca>;
> public-webappsec@w3.org
> Subject: Re: new meta tags to protect code visibility or immuatbility
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:45 AM, Daniel Veditz <dveditz@mozilla.com> wrote:
>
> You are indeed trolling. Making bookmarklets and some add-ons work when CSP
> is applied is _hard_. They are not broken because CSP-implementing browser
> vendors are valuing the page author over the user. We don't know how to
> balance a feature that wants random content injection and a feature that is
> trying to prevent content injection. Firefox does allow users to disable CSP
> entirely if they think it is interfering with their experience (users win,
> as the PoC says they should); I wouldn't be surprised if Chrome didn't also
> support that as an advanced option.
>
>
>
> Chrome does not support that as an option.
>
>
>
> Chrome does, however, do quite a bit of work to allow extensions to bypass
> CSP. It's not at all perfect, but it's probably ~80% of the way there. I'd
> love to see Firefox follow suit. :)
>
>
>
> -mike



-- 
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Received on Thursday, 25 February 2016 05:27:43 UTC

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