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Re: [webcomponents] Binding Custom Element without Polluting Global Scope (Was Proposal for Cross Origin Use Case and Declarative Syntax)

From: Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:11:21 -0800
Cc: Brian Di Palma <offler@gmail.com>, Dimitri Glazkov <dglazkov@chromium.org>, "public-webapps@w3.org WG" <public-webapps@w3.org>, Erik Arvidsson <arv@google.com>
Message-id: <3FB031F0-1720-45E8-8CAF-D529A631ACAE@apple.com>
To: Dominic Cooney <dominicc@google.com>
On Dec 7, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Dominic Cooney <dominicc@google.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@apple.com> wrote:
> On Dec 6, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@apple.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 6, 2013, at 1:20 AM, Brian Di Palma <offler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@apple.com> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 12:45 AM, Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@apple.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 8:12 AM, Dimitri Glazkov <dglazkov@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 1) It is not friendly to ES6 classes. In fact, you can't use class syntax
>>>> and this syntax together.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Okay, let the author define the constructor.
>>>> 
>>>> 3) The approach pollutes global name space with constructors. This had been
>>>> voiced many times as unacceptable by developers.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> We can solve this problem by using JavaScript "object path" as opposed to a
>>>> variable name.
>>>> 
>>>> So instead of:
>>>> <template register="my-button" interface="MyButton">
>>>> </template>
>>>> 
>>>> We allow:
>>>> <script>
>>>> var my = {views:{MyButton: ~}};
>>>> </script>
>>>> <template register="my-button" interface="my.views.MyButton">
>>>> </template>
>>>> 
>>>> While this requires some variable to be exposed on the global scope,
>>>> libraries and frameworks do this already,
>>> 
>>> Hopefully though they won't do that any longer in the ES6 module world.
>>> They had to be exposed on the global scope in some way otherwise they
>>> couldn't be used, in future that will no longer be the case.
>> 
>> Are you proposing to provide some mechanism to declaratively define a custom element inside a module?
>> How does a ES6 module end up having markup?
> 
> I'll also point out that with our proposal to add an optional template argument, we could do:
> 
> <template id=myButton>
> ...
> </template>
> <script>
> (function () {
>     class MyButton extends HTMLElement {
>         ...
>     }
>     document.register('my-button', MyButton, document.getElementById('myButton'));
> )();
> </script>
> 
> so authors DO have an option to hide the class entirely from the global scope. It's just not declarative.
> 
> I don't think this proposal is an improvement over the document.register in the spec today.

It is an improvement in that it reduces the boilerplate code that we expect many custom elements to have.

> The existing spec for document.register does not add a binding to the JavaScript scope. So it does not suffer the problem discussed in this thread.

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this.  Could you clarify?

> Given that we don't want to change "this" or the global object per previous discussion in the working group,
> 
> I don't know what discussion you are specifically referring to so my next statement is not agreeing or disagreeing with the preceding clause of this sentence.


See Erik's inline comment in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013AprJun/0122.html

"Unfortunately NodeJS broke this invariant already. `this` inside a module that has been required is a not the [[Global]] object. This has caused me a lot of personal porting pain so I agree we must not break this invariant on the web."


> I don't see how we can refer to a JS class/constructor declaratively.
> 
> Yes. I can't think of an example where DOM attributes do this. onclick, etc. handlers relate to script, but they do not refer to specific objects.
> 
> This is a problem with your proposal.

I don't think this is an issue with our proposal.  I don't think any proposal for declarative syntax can simultaneously satisfy requirements to not change the meaning of "this" inside the element definition and not pollute the global namespace at all.

> I think a proposal for declarative Custom Elements must also deal with the problems the group discovered when it last tried. They are summarized here:
> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013JulSep/0287.html>

A lot of problems listed there appears to stem from an implicit assumption that the declarative syntax should have the same expressiveness as imperative API.  I disagree with that proposition.  Any moderately complicated Web apps will inevitably involve scripts.  The existing Web APIs are designed around this principle; they address common use cases with declarative syntax and provide imperative APIs for more complicated use cases.

- R. Niwa



Received on Friday, 7 February 2014 05:11:49 UTC

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