RE: MathML and "Clipboard API and events"

Why would the answer to this question be dictated by the need to convert the MathML format to some other “native” format? I just want my app (native or web) to be able to identify the clipboard data type so it can consume the data as it sees fit. Conversion to some other format is but one thing an app can do with data. If apps can’t identify MathML with confidence, they are stuck with ad hoc sniffing of any non-specific data types that might contain MathML. I might look at the plain text and XML data types to see if they contain “<math>”, for example.

In some sense MathML does have a native format on Mac and Windows. Microsoft and Design Science (my company) got together years ago and defined one. There are some other companies that support it but it seems like it is hard to get the word out there with a “standard” offered by commercial app vendors. If browsers supported MathML rendering and a distinct MathML clipboard type and both were defined by the W3C, it would go a long way to establishing a standard that matters and it would get adopted widely.

Paul

From: dcheng@google.com [mailto:dcheng@google.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Cheng
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 1:56 PM
To: Paul Topping
Cc: Hallvord Reiar Michaelsen Steen; public-webapps@w3.org
Subject: Re: MathML and "Clipboard API and events"

When I suggested formats that implementations ought to support, I specifically mentioned image/svg+xml because it was mostly convertible to native types (Windows metafile on Windows, PDF on Mac). I don't think anyone's implemented this conversion, but it's technically possible.

On the other hand, MathML doesn't have a corresponding native equivalent on Windows or Mac. You could argue that this is a chicken and egg problem, but without any native format equivalents, there's no good way to map that data.

You should still be able to set MathML in the clipboard if you want. It just won't be visible to native apps.

Daniel

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com<mailto:pault@dessci.com>> wrote:
Hi Halvord,

Yes, your rewording sounds like a good direction to me. I still worry that placing plain text on the clipboard along with MathML will result in a lot of apps failing to paste the MathML but doing so would probably be considered a bug in such an app.

Thanks for filing the bugs. I suspect that the MathML community would be eager to help define what needs to get stripped out of MathML to maintain security. However, speaking for myself, I do not know what kinds of things are considered dangerous. For example, MathML has markup that lets a math expression act as a hyperlink. Do we need to strip that out completely or is that dependent on the url? If there are guidelines on what is considered dangerous, then we could figure out exactly which MathML constructs need to be pruned. Or is there some other procedure for getting this done?

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hallvord Reiar Michaelsen Steen [mailto:hallvord@opera.com<mailto:hallvord@opera.com>]
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 1:50 AM
> To: public-webapps@w3.org<mailto:public-webapps@w3.org>; Paul Topping
> Subject: Re: MathML and "Clipboard API and events"
>
> Hi Paul, thanks for your comments.
>
> > Mathematical information
> >
> > This section says "MathML often needs to be transformed to be
> > copied as plain text, for example to make sure "to the power of"
> > is shown with the caret "^" sign in a formula plain-text input."
> > Such a transformation should not be part of a normal copy operation
> > since that would transfer MathML. My concern is that readers get the
> > idea that x 2 should always or often be transformed to x^2.
>
>
> What about saying something like
>
>
> "Some applications may want to place plain text alternatives along with
> MathML formulas on he clipboard, for example to make sure .." ?
>
>
> >  10.  Mandatory data types
> >
> > I am surprised not to see a MathML type in this list
>
>
> Well, since you mention it.. I've filed a bug (
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21698 ) in response to
> your question. If you have comments or information please add (either by
> replying here or in the bug). Would be great if you could help me understand
> whether allowing an application to write MathML to the clipboard could
> expose an app to attacks if the MathML markup is pasted without further
> processing - see also
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21700

>
>
> --
> Hallvord R. M. Steen
> Core tester, Opera Software
>
>
>
>