- From: Marcos Caceres <marcosc@opera.com>
- Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 18:50:26 +0200
- To: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
- Cc: public-webapps@w3.org, List WAI Liaison <wai-liaison@w3.org>
Hi Michael, WebApps is awaiting on a response from WAI before we republish the Widgets P&C specification. FYI, as I alluded to in my previous email (below), we have created a new document for conformance checkers: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-pc-cc Again, I would be happy to collaborate with someone from WAI on that document. Kind regards, Marcos On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Marcos Caceres <marcosc@opera.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Michael Cooper<cooper@w3.org> wrote: >> This is a review of Widgets 1.0: Packaging and Configuration >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-20090528/>, the Last Call Working >> Draft. These comments are submitted on behalf of the Protocols and Formats >> Working Group and are focused on accessibility to people with disabilities. >> >> We apologize for sending these comments late, after the document has gone to >> Candidate Recommendation. We approved sending these comments on 17 June 2009 >> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/17-pf-minutes#item04, but failed to track that >> they actually got sent. Since the document progressed to Candidate >> Recommendation before we discovered the error, we understand that you may >> not be able to accommodate most of these comments. However, we believe it is >> important to put the comments on the record nevertheless. You may be able to >> address some of them as editorial items on the Candidate Recommendation, and >> the remainder could inform requirements for a future version. We do not, >> however, object to this version of the document proceeding to Recommendation >> as is, since the failure to send comments on time is ours. > > Fantastic. > >> 1) Text alternatives >> >> An object as complex as a packaged widget will certainly need a text >> alternative or label for accessibility. The possibility for this is provided >> with the <name> element (including the "short" version) and the >> <description> element. However, these are optional features of the >> configuration document. The <name> element should be required; in other >> words, there should be 1 or more, not 0 or more. > > Unfortunately, it's too late to change this. > >> The <description> element >> could remain optional. In addition to enforcing this, conformance checkers >> should also raise a warning if there is not a <name> element provided for >> each localization, at least for every major language (may not be a huge >> issue for regional variants). > > This seems reasonable. As we don't yet have anyone who has opted in to > implement the CC requirements, I'm wondering if we can add this. We > are debating if we should move all the conformance requirements for a > CC's out of P&C to a new spec. If we do that, we would certainly add > this to that spec. > >> The <name> element for the widget would also fulfill the role of a text >> alternative / label for the icon. In particular, the "short" name might >> serve as a good label, while the longer name serve as a text alternative for >> accessibility purposes. The <description> would also be something it would >> be important to expose to assistive technologies. This handling of icons >> should be clearly spelled out. > > Because of the way we have architectured the P&C user agent, the above > would not apply to P&C. We have removed requirements that the P&C user > agent should expose icons, license, etc. and will put those into a > separate Widget User Agent spec. To put it simply, the P&C UA is just > an application the processes Zip files and configuration documents - > that is it, does not expose or do anything else: running the widget, > exposing icons, etc. is left up to other consumers of the P&C > specification. That new spec would also be a good place to deal with > the requirement above (i.e., make it more clear what the relationship > is between icons, name, and description from an accessibility POV. I > would very much like to collaborate with PFWG on this, but that is > future work at this point). > >> 2) Width and height attributes >> >> The "width" and "height" attributes only allow pixel values. Pixel values >> are notoriously problematic across device and user contexts. Furthermore it >> is odd that these attributes are limited to pixels when they are explicitly >> disallowed when a pixel-based raster graphic is used. If the author is using >> a vector format, why would they then restrict it to a specific pixel value? > > The pixel value represents the minimum value at which an icon would be > used for a given context. A vector graphic might only look good at, > for instance, resolutions larger than 100 pixels (because of > anti-aliasing, which makes things look blurry and and text illegible). > So, below 100 pixels, the author might prefer to use a raster graphic > - particularly for really small icons (e.g., 16X16). > >> Users with disabilities frequently need to customize size presentation. >> While user agents can be instructed to ignore pixel values or apply a >> multiplier to them, the results are often sub-optimal. It is better to allow >> the author to define more adaptable length units. Measurements such as >> inches and centimetres adapt better to various display devices then pixels; >> ems and percent adapt better to specific display contexts. >> While in a >> packaged widget, the context needed to resolve ems and percent units may not >> always be present, it often will be. Therefore, we suggest that the entire >> set of CSS length units be supported by these attributes. > > Ok, for now, we have limited this to CSS pixels. In future versions, > we could allow any CSS length unit. I've added this to the V2 list of > features: > > http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Widgets2_UC%26R > >> 3) Icon alternatives >> >> The example in 8.10 suggests it's possible to provide more than one icon >> element per localization, for e.g., different sizes (other domains of >> difference are not spelled out). How does the user agent select which icon >> to use? How might user preferences or context impact this? That needs to be >> spelled out. Users with disabilities should have the ability to influence >> which icon is presented to them via user agent preferences, and the icon >> selection procedure needs to be specified to support this. > > I agree. However, this is outside the scope of P&C. As I said above, > I'm happy to work with the PFWG on this requirement. At this point, > the P&C UA just returns a list of icons to whomever wants to use them > (as part of the configuration defaults). > >> 4) MIME type detection and support for additional media types >> >> The specification defines file extension mapping and content sniffing >> procedures, as there is no way to define media types in zip files. Wouldn't >> it be a point of the packaging format to provide explicit media type >> information in the package? > > This is not necessary with sniffing.... > >> It should be a requirement for a conforming >> package to be able to determine media type reliably. > > Academically, yes. No widget engine on the market requires this, and > they all work just fine. > > Also, I don't see how reliability increases up by giving this control > to authors? If anything, it's likely to decrease reliability as it > splits metadata from the object in question. This is a bad thing. > >> While file extension >> and magic numbers are useful for formats that have defined processing, there >> will certainly be use cases to provide content in media types not supported >> by these mechanisms. > > We have not come up against these. And such cases are rare. > >> Beyond general use cases, the emergence of new media >> types, and widget evolution in the future, some users with disabilities >> benefit from alternate media. > > This is certainly true. But sniffing new types can also be included as > needed in future UAs. > >> There would certainly be reasons to package >> widgets with capabilities provided by alternate media such as audio or >> video, even if they are for specialized audiences. > > Agreed. But this problem is greater than what is covered by P&C 1.0. I > think we should give widgets 1.0 a chance to be out in the market so > we can find out exactly what those problems are (though I'm sure the > PFWG can probably preemptively tell us). Although we worked hard to > make the configuration document accessible, I believe current > limitation can be addressed incrementally. > >> We suggest providing the possibility of including a file catalog that >> explicitly provides the MIME type for files whose type would not be detected >> by the methods defined in the spec. It could be as simple as: >> >> file: catalog.xml >> <catalog> >> <file path="{Path attribute}" type="{Media type attribute}"/> >> ... >> </catalog> > > We have explored lots of options for this, and will certainly include > it for version 2 (it's already listed as "add manifest format/addType > for mime types"). However, no implementer has request this feature. > > Aside from a manifest such as the one above, we also considered > following Apache's AddType labels to identify MIME types. A > combination of all approaches (sniffing, explicit file to type > declaration) would yield something very useful, though the use cases > are still limited IMO. > >> It need not be a requirement that the catalog list all files, only ones that >> need special information attached. Conformance checkers should check that >> the MIME type of every file can be determined reliably, either via the >> sniffing mechanisms already defined or via an entry in the catalog file. > > This would certainly be good. But outdated CC's, or differences > between CC's and UAs, might cause problems: cc says "can' detect type > X, UA happily sniffs type X". However, it is certainly worthwhile > considering the low hanging fruit (e.g., just checking file > extensions, and magic numbers). > >> There may well be other types of special information that the catalog might >> support, once introduced. So the benefits of providing this probably extend >> beyond improved MIME type detection. > > I'm sure there would be, but I can't think of any off the top of my > head. However, for this reason, it might be worth while looking at > systems that are already doing this (e.g., limitations/uses of appache > .htaccess files). Can you think of other systems/uses? > > -- > Marcos Caceres > http://datadriven.com.au > -- Marcos Caceres http://datadriven.com.au
Received on Saturday, 3 October 2009 16:51:17 UTC