- From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:17:37 +0000 (UTC)
- To: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
- Cc: Marcos Caceres <marcosscaceres@gmail.com>, Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>, Richard Cohn <rcohn@adobe.com>, Bill McCoy <bmccoy@adobe.com>, "Henry.Story@Sun.COM" <Henry.Story@sun.com>, Michael Stahl <Michael.Stahl@sun.com>, "www-archive@w3.org" <www-archive@w3.org>, Svante Schubert <Svante.Schubert@sun.com>, "eduardo.gutentag@oasis-open.org" <eduardo.gutentag@oasis-open.org>, Philippe Le Hegaret <plh@w3.org>, Carl Cargill <cargill@adobe.com>, Stephen Zilles <szilles@adobe.com>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>, public-webapps <public-webapps@w3.org>
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Larry Masinter wrote: > > If you are creating implementations of a particular class of software, > then the functional specification of that implementation will, of > necessity, need to document the interplay between the components, and it > may indeed be useful to specify how to robustly interact with existing > legacy components and content that are already widely deployed. However, > confusing "implementation functional specification" vs "definition of > protocol, format, language" seems like a bad idea. One of the big problems faced by Internet-related software users today, a problem about which we, the Internet standards community, hear complaints all the time from users and each other, for example during presentations on W3C plenary days, is the poor level of interoperability between different software components that are, in principle, interacting using common protocols, formats, and languages. For example, we hear about Web authors finding that different browsers render their pages differently. We see validators interpreting Web pages in different ways than search engines. We see chat clients mishighlighting URLs pasted from other applications. We see HTML pages that work fine in a Web browser render in unexpected ways in e-mail clients. We see search engines interpreting URLs in HTML pages differently than Web browsers. Certainly, some problems can be traced to straight forward bugs, errors in the implementations of the software relative to the protocols, formats or languages they implement. However, a large number of these problems can in fact be traced back to ambiguities _in the specifications_, in particular in the definitions of how different layers interact. I like to think of this as a tiling problem -- different working groups working on different specifications, all attempting to tile the conceptual architectural space of the whole system. Here is what it might look like today: ## CSS ######################### ################################ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++ HTML ++++++++ +++++++++++++++++ --DOM-- ((JS)) ::::::::::: /// TLS /// ::: FTP ::: <<< data: >>> \\\\ HTTP \\\\ ::::::::::: -------- IRI ------------------------- ======== URI ========================= ...an so forth. Conceptually, there are gaps between the tiles, through which lack of interperability can pass -- areas where the specifications do not fully define behavior. To lack ambiguity, it should look like this: ## CSS ################################ ####################################### ####################################### +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++ HTML ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++---DOM---(((JS))))) /////////////////:::::::::::<<<<<<<<>>> /// TLS /////////::: FTP :::<< data: >> \\\\ HTTP \\\\\\\:::::::::::<<<<<<<<>>> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\:::::::::::<<<<<<<<>>> -------- IRI -------------------------- ======== URI ========================== I believe that the difference between these two states is the difference between looking at specifications as "definitions of protocol, format, language" vs "implementation functional specifications". The former gives us a neat set of orthogonal specifications that seem quite simple, but in practice, what we need for quality software is the latter. Now, implementation functional specifications are significantly harder to write. One has to worry about interactions between specifications from working groups who may have never have spoken to each other, about rare edge cases that are of little interest, about what happens when the rules of other layers aren't followed. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. Confusing "implementation functional specification" vs "definition of protocol, format, language" does indeed seem like a bad idea. We need implementation functional specifications. > You're not seriously arguing that one should specify HTTP with the > assumption that TCP might be broken, and that sometimes content is > mangled, and put all of the ways of dealing with that into the HTTP > specification? Personally, if TCP is wrong (broken), I think the problem should be addressed in the TCP specs. Similarly, if HTTP doesn't define processing requirements in detail, that is a problem the HTTP working group should solve. If the URL specifications don't define how to handle errors in URLs, that is something the URL specifications should define. The problem that we have seen with HTML5 in particular is that sometimes, the people working on the specifications with the problems don't recognise the importance (or existence) of the problems. People on the URL mailing list were quite clear, for instance, that they were of the opinion that they should not take responsibility for defining how software should process mistyped URLs. The gap between the tiles was left unfilled by the URL specifications. (In this particular case, the HTML "tile" was extended instead, to at least solve this problem for URLs in HTML. It doesn't solve the problem for SVG, or MathML, or anything else, unfortunately.) Note that I'm not talking about Web browsers here, I'm talking about _any_ software. A link checker, a search engine, a Web browser, and a validator, if a user is to have a consistent experience with his software, all have to process the user's data, such as a mistyped URL, in the same way. It's not an issue that we can leave up to a single implementation's functional specification, or even the functional specification of a single conformance class. It's a problem that affects all software. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Saturday, 29 November 2008 11:18:31 UTC