- From: Hector Santos <winserver.support@winserver.com>
- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:23:52 -0400
- To: "web-plugins" <public-web-plugins@w3.org>, "Stolowitz, Micah" <MDSTOLOWITZ@stoel.com>
Hi Micah, I've been complacent with following the laws in recent years. I knew they were being relaxed and I seem to recall a SPI and/or an effort to built a diverse database of prior art was something due to the Compton patent that was eventually reversed. But I haven't been following up until now with the changes. This whole episode has been a wake up call. Mr. Doyle is stepped into my livihood. I have real client/server products that date back to the 80s. I don't depends on a "patent portfolio," although that will probably change in the future. I'm an idea man so I should be able to come up with some silly nuisance software patents in a heart beat! Here is an another example on how the inexperience of the patent examiners have allowed an Anti-Spam patent to be issued based on an erroneous claim. In the email business, the SMTP server "state machine" has 5 basic steps (commands). The sender software sends these commands: HELO (or EHLO) MAIL FROM: <address of sender, not necessity the author> RCPT TO: <recipient address> DATA actual email data/body QUIT at each step, the server sends a response that contains a success or failure response code based on standard Internet RFC specifications. This is example of the possible response codes: EHLO or HELO S: 250 E: 504, 550 MAIL S: 250 E: 552, 451, 452, 550, 553, 503 RCPT S: 250, 251 (but see section 3.4 for discussion of 251 and 551) E: 550, 551, 552, 553, 450, 451, 452, 503, 550 DATA I: 354 -> data -> S: 250 E: 552, 554, 451, 452 E: 451, 554, 503 QUIT S: 221 For the RCPT TO: as shown above, the internet RFC standard specifics the following: RCPT S: 250, 251 (but see section 3.4 for discussion of 251 and 551) E: 550, 551, 552, 553, 450, 451, 452, 503, 550 Now, if the mail server is going to accept the message, it sends a 250 response code. But what if you wanted to address spammers? The Error responses possible are 4xx and 5xx numbers. According to the RFC specifications, a 4xx is a "Temporary Error" which means it is ok for the sender to try again. The 5xx is a permanent error which means that the sender should not try again to send the mail because it will not be accepted. This is straight from the RFC "Anti-Spam" specifications: 1.6. SMTP Return Codes SMTP has several classes of Return Codes, see [1] for a discussion: o 5xx is a Permanent Negative Completion reply (Fatal Error) and results in the mail transfer being terminated and the mail returned to sender. o 4xx is a Transient Negative Completion reply (Temporary Error) and results in the mail transfer being put back on queue again and a new attempt being made later. and it even has an example: C RCPT To: <usr@domain.example> S 250 <usr@domain.example>... Recipient ok C RCPT To: <foo@domain.example> S 451 <foo@domain.example>... Denied due to spam list C RCPT To: <bar@domain.example> S 550 <bar@domain.example>... Denied due to spam list The 451 error means the sender can try again. But the 550 means it should try again for that recipient. Well, another "Mr. Doyle Like" person who does not even have product on the market but rather is trying to exploit the flaws of the patent system, has a claim in his anti-spam patent that he is the only one using the 550 response code because it enforces the idea to the spammer not to send mail again, a central aspect of his patent. I mean his web site make a BIG highlighted point of saying: "WE ARE THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT DOES THIS!" well, he's wrong. The RFC specification clearly indicates sending a 5xx response with the 100% technical intentions to signify to the remote client sender software not to try again. Now, you tell me, how as this get pass the patent examiners? (rhetorical question) I only found it because of the recent email virus mess hitting the world and me joining new efforts to combat it by changing or developing new RFC specifications for electronic mail. I found this guy's this "anti-spam patent" and I was flabbergasted by this claims! I immediately mailed him informing him of not only prior art but also the erroneous claim about being the only system using the 550 response code. The guy is all bothered now. You just how to wonder how this happen in the first place. But even then, this is like saying you have a nine-digit keypad for home security and 1/2 of the possible numbers are patented so you can't use those numbers! If the patent examiners just read the RFC specs to verify his claim, they would of voided his patent. If a patent mentions SMTP, then it is prudent the that examination of the patent is assigned to a person familar with the subject. Anyway, you got my point, I think. Sincerely, Hector Santos, CTO Santronics Software, Inc. http://www.santronics.com 305-431-2846 Cell 305-248-3204 Office ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stolowitz, Micah" <MDSTOLOWITZ@stoel.com> To: "Hector Santos" <winserver.support@winserver.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Eolas - agree on the prior art ..... You make a good point. And I can't imagine an experienced engineer going to work for the PTO (yuk). Wasn't all this the purpose of the SPI? (Software Patent Institute, I think). -----Original Message----- From: Hector Santos [mailto:winserver.support@winserver.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 8:41 AM To: Stolowitz, Micah Subject: Re: Eolas - agree on the prior art ..... You would think so? But I just proved their due diligence is lacking with patent 6,327,617. Obviously they didn't do a good job. The odds are high the lawyers (and more likely the gofers) are relatively young and do not have the diverse engineering experience to know what to even look for. That's been the basic problem with the USPTO. I'm not pulling this out of thin-air. They admitted long ago they need to recruit experienced engineers - they are just not going to them. Ask them if they even heard or seen a BBS, and the odds are good they don't have a clue. I don't know you, of course I could completely off base but odds are good you don't know much about them either. Sincerely, Hector Santos, CTO Santronics Software, Inc. http://www.santronics.com 305-431-2846 Cell 305-248-3204 Office ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stolowitz, Micah" <MDSTOLOWITZ@stoel.com> To: "Richard M. Smith" <rms@computerbytesman.com>; <public-web-plugins@w3.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:24 AM Subject: RE: Eolas - agree on the prior art ..... One might observe that Microsoft's legal team (and technical helpers) spent the past three or four years, with a virtually unlimited budget, searching for pertinent prior art. -Micah -----Original Message----- From: Richard M. Smith [mailto:rms@computerbytesman.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 8:18 AM To: public-web-plugins@w3.org Subject: RE: Eolas - agree on the prior art ..... This list looks like a good starting point, but the patent prior art game is played a bit different than Mr. Hallam-Baker indicates. One must compare the operation of a product against each claim of a patent. There has to be a close match for the claims of a patent. If a product operates differently than the claims section, then the product isn't prior art. Any search for prior art must begin with a good understanding of the claims section of a patent to know what to look for. Richard -----Original Message----- From: public-web-plugins-request@w3.org [mailto:public-web-plugins-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Hemant Desai Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:04 AM To: public-web-plugins@w3.org Subject: Eolas - agree on the prior art ..... Mail from Phillip M. Hallam-Baker (hallam@w3.org) which has the following date : Date: 1995/08/22 There is a long list of prior art on the inclucsion of executable content within the Web. This includes: tkwww (Published prior to October 1992) Viola (Demonstrated July 1993) HTTP/1.0 Spec (Published 1992) emacs-www (1992? 1993?) Mosaic/ application/x-csh (1992, 1993) www/ application/postscript (1991) www-talk (1992 threads on executable content) The Web is simply another hypertext application though. The inclusion of a feature from another hypertext system is therefore obvious. Thus the following are also of relevance :- DEC LinkWorks (communication PHB->TBL, 1992) Xanadu (Ted Nelson, 1970 ->) NeWs (Gosling et al. 1982?) In addition the use of the term "weblet" to indicate a modular approach to browser building is in current usage. This type of nonsense is not the way we do buisness on the Web. The community has grown without Mr Doyle's assistance and will continue to do so. The technology he claims ownership of was clearly understood to be part of the original concept of the Web and there is ample evidence to support this claim. Irrespective of the intended licensing arrangements there is simply nothing that adds value in the Eolas claim. I see nothing that I regard as novel or original. It is interesting to note that the work was performed using Mosaic. Many of the projects I refer to were published before the publication of Mosaic. Perhaps the net could compile a more complete list. Please do it in news and do not mail me! It seems odd that US patent law should permit the granting of a patent merely to use a well known technique within a famework explicitly designed to support extensibillity.
Received on Tuesday, 2 September 2003 15:36:01 UTC